Posjetilac od 8 Oktobra 2000 Visitor from October 8. 2000

URADI RELOAD - REFRESH OVE STRANE SVAKI PUT!

ORIGINAL   ARTICLE   IS   HERE

Confirmation from Rick Martin to use and translate this article is here.

Rijetki - Začudjujući Razgovor
30 Septembar 1999, napisao  RICK MARTIN

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Ovaj članak je pod pravom kopiranja (C) The Spectrum i Rudolf Bošnjak
Pravo prevodjenja dozvoljeno Rudolf Bošnjak

OVAJ   KOMPLETAN  TEKST, SPREMAN ZA ŠTAMPU

Često se govori da Stari Ljudi bilo kog plemena drže ključeve znanja. Ova izjava nikad nije bila čistije potvrdjena nego u nedavnom razgovoru kada sam imao veliku privilegiju da to izvedem sa Šamanom iz plemena Zulu "Sanusi" koji se zove Credo Mutwa, koji sada ima blizu osamdeset godina starosti.

Kroz napor i pomoć David-a Icke-a, bio sam u mogućnosti da uspostavim kontakt sa Dr. Johan-om Joubert-tom, koji je sve dogovorio sa Credo Mutwa, te nam je dozvoljeno da ovaj razgovor obavimo telefonskim putem, sa Južnom Afrikom. Mi u firmi The SPECTRUM želimo da izrazimo našu najdublju zahvalnost obojici, David-u Icke-u i Dr. Joubert-u za njihovu nesebičnost da dobijemo Istinu ovog čovjeka na vidjelo.

Prvi put sam čuo o Credo Mutwa prije pet godina, u ono vrijeme kada je bilo nemoguće govoriti  direktno sa njim telefonom, pošto je on \ivio u udaljenom području bez telefona. Kada sam čuo od David-a Icke-a da je proveo neko vrijeme sa Credo Mutwa i da je on spreman da govori za   SPECTRUM, i tako se sve odigralo. Sve se desilo posredstvom medjunarodnih telefonskoh linija, 13-tog  Augusta i to je trajalo 4 sata! I mi nismo ništa ukinuli od onog što jesu bile njegove riječi. Riječi koje je izgovorio se ovdje pojavljuju kompletno i u punom kontekstu, pošto je naša uobičajena politika da poštujemo govornike jer to je jedino, časno novinarstvo!

Credo Mutwa je čovjek koga David Icke opisuje kao: "Naj začudjujući čovjek pun znanja i to je bila moja privilegija i čast da ga zovem prijatelj, genije." Poslije razgovora sa Credo Mutwa, nisam mogao ništa više reći.

Želio bih da dam komentar da Credo Mutwa, nije čovjek formalnog obrazovanja, bilo je dosta dovoljno i precizno da izgovori (speluje) sva od  Zulu ili Afričkih riječi, pravilno izgovori  unapredjujući njegovu čast i preciznost.

Ako osjećate da ste čitali neki materijal kasnije da prodire u vaša razmišljanja i izaziva vaš sistem vjerovanja, ovaj razgovor će vas odvesti jedan korak iza. Kao i uvijek, Istina je čudna radije nego fikcija. Takodjer, Istina-ili djelići Istine otkriveni bilo kome od nas-su dio većeg mozaika, i zbog toga zavisi od svakog od nas do dodje do svog vlastitog zaključka u vezi Istine i da je podjeli sa nama.

Mi smo počastvovani da imamo ovu priliku da predsatvimo Credo Mutwa, njegova iskustva i znanje sa vama. To je rijetka mogućnost i mnogo zahvalna prilika.

Začudjujuće-zapanjujuće informacije predstavljene od Credo Mutwa jesu svakako provokativne i teško dohvatljive u implikacijama i namjeri. Jedanput kada pročitate ove informacije vi ćete spremnije razumjeti zašto su pokušavali da ga ušutkaju. Slično, vi ćete se duboko zahvaliti  Credo-voj hrabrosti što govori istinu, bez obzira na posljedice po njega.

Tako, bez daljnjih uvodnih komentara, počnimo sa ovim razgovorom-intervjuom.

Martin: Prije svega, dozvoli mi da iskažem da mi je čast i privilegija da govorim sa tobom, i želio bih da se zahvalim gospodinu po imenu David Icke i Dr. Joubert-u, bez čije pomoći mi ne bi bili u mogućnosti da imamo ovaj razgovor danas.

Naši čitaoci su čuli o postojanju oblika - koji se mijenja reptilskog vanzemaljca (shape - shifting reptilian extraterrestrials), i šta bih ja želio je,da prodiskutujem sa vama, a tiče se specifičnosti njihove prisutnosti, njihovog vodjstva, i njihovih metoda rada u ovom vremenu.

Tako, prvo pitanje koje bih želio da postavim je: Možete li potvrditi da oblik-koji se mijenja reptilskog vanzemaljca postoji (shape-shifting reptilian extraterrestrials do), u stvari, postoji na našoj planeti u ovom vremenu? I ako oni postoje, možete li to potvrditi, hoćete li molim vas bit izričiti o tome. Odakle su oni došli?

Credo Mutwa: Gospodine, mogu li se vaše novine poslati ljudima u Africi?

Martin: Žao mi je, možete li ponoviti to?

Credo Mutwa: Mugu li se vaše novine ljubazno poslati nekome u Africi u bliskoj budućnosti?

Martin: Mi finansijski nismo sposobni da to radimo u ovom trenutku, ali se to može promjeniti u budućnosti.

Credo Mutwa: Pošto postoje neke stvari koje ja želim, molim, kao vaše novine da provjerim nezavisno od mene. Vi ste čuli o zemlji koje se zovu Ruanda, u Centralnoj Africi?

Martin: Da.

Credo Mutwa: Narodi Ruande, Hutu narod, kao i Watusi narod, tvrde, i oni nisu jedini ljudi u Africi koji tvrde ovo, da su njihovi vrlo stari preci bili rasa bića koje su oni zvali  Imanujela, što znači " Gospodari koji su došli - the Lords who have come". I neka plemena u Zapadnoj Africi, kao što su Bambara narod, takodjer govore istu stvar. Oni kažu da su došli sa neba, mnogo, mnogo generacije prije,  rasa visoko naprednih i ljutih kreatura-oblika koji su izgledali kao ljudi, i oni su ih zvali  Zishwezi. Riječ Zishwezi znači  (dival or glidal ) ploveća kroz vazduh-kreatura-oblik koja može da se spušta-jedri sa neba ili jedri-plovi kroz vodu.

Svi, gospodine, su čuli o Dogon narodu u Zapadnoj Africi i oni svi kažu da im je dana-data kultura od normalnih bića, ali oni nisu Dogon narod, oni su jedan od mnogih, mnogih naroda u Africi koji tvrde da su njihova plemena ili njihovi kraljevi bili prvo osnovani - stvoreni od  superprirodne rase kreatura-oblika koji su došli sa neba. 

( Riječ SA NEBA po R. B. klikni  klikni ovdje i pogledaj pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

Da li ste još uvijek sa mnom, gospodine?

Martin: Oh da, veoma mnogo. Molim nastavite.

Credo Mutwa: Gospodine, Ja mogu nastaviti, nastaviti sa ovim, ali dozvolite mi da vas dovedem do mog naroda, Zulu naroda Južne Afrike.

Martin: Molim.

Credo Mutwa: Zulu narod, koji je poznat kao ratnički narod, narod kome je Kralj  Šaka Zulu (Shaka Zulu), zadnjeg stoljeća, pripadao. Kada pitate Južno Afričkog Bijelog antropologa šta ime  Zulu znači, on će reći "nebo" (smijeh), i zbog toga Zulu zovu sami sebe "narod sa neba - narod neba". To, gospodine,  nema smisla. U Zulu jeziku, naše ime za nebo, plavo nebo, je sibakabaka. Naše ime za inter-planetarni prostor, uvijek, je izulu i weduzulu, što znači "inter-planetarni prostor, tamno nebo koje vidiš sa zvjezdama svake noći", takodjer, to ima veze sa putovanjem, gospodine. Zulu riječ za putovanje nasumice (word for traveling at random), kao nomad ili ciganin, je izula.

Sada, možete vidjeti da Zulu narod u Južnoj Africi je upoznat sa činjenicom da možeš putovati kroz prostor-ne kroz nebo kao ptica-ali ti možes putovati kroz prostor, i Zulu tvrde da mnogo, mnogo hiljada godina prije su oni došli, iz neba, rasa naroda koji su izgledali kao gušteri (lizards), narod koji je mogao da mijenja oblik po volji. I narodi koji su ženili njihove kćerke za šetajuće vanzemaljce (extraterrestrial), i radjali-proizvodili su snažnu rasu Kraljeva i plemenskih Poglavica, ima stotine bajki o tome, gospodine, u kojima ženka gušter preuzima identitet ljudske princeze i postaje ona, i ženi se za Zulu Princa.

Svako školsko dijete u Južnoj Africi, gospodine, zna priču o princezi zvanoj Khombecansini. Khombecansini se spremala na udaju za Princa zvanog Kakaka, a njegovo ime znači "onaj prosvjetljeni, poučeni" - "the enlightened one". Tada, jednog dana dok je Khombecansini skupljala suho drvo za potpalu vatre u niskom rastinju, ona je srela kreaturu zvanu Imbulu. I taj Imbulu bio je gušter- lizard koji je imao tijelo i udove ljudskog bića, ali i dugi rep. I taj gušter rekao je Princezi Khombecansini, "Oh, kako lijepa si ti, djevojka, ja bih želio biti kao ti. Ja želim da izgledam kao ti. Mogu li doći bliže?" reče Imbulu žena gušter princezi.

( Riječ GUŠTER-LIZARD po R. B. klikni  klikni ovdje i pogledaj pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

I princeza reče, "Da, možeš."

I pošto je gušter, bio viši, prišla je bliže djevojci, ona je pljunula (spat) u djevokine oči i počela da se mjenja. To je to, gušter iznenada poče da se mjenja u ljudski oblik i gušter poče da izgleda više i više i više da izgleda kao djevojka, ali sa ostatkom njenog dugog, vidljivog repa. I tada, iznenada posta nasilna, ženka gušter napravi princezu nepokretnu (sealed the princess i skide sve njene narukvice i njene perle i svu njenu vjenčanu odjeću sa nje, i ona sve to obuće na sebe. I tako, gušter postade princeza.

Sada su postojale dvije identične žene u niskom rastinju, oblik promjenjene žene guštera i originalna žena. I žena gušter reče originalnoj ženi, "Ti si sada moj rob-robinja. Sada ćeš ti mene pratiti na  vjenčanje. Ja ću biti ti, a ti ćeš biti moj rob-robinja, dodji!" Ona je uzela štap i počela da tuče jadnu princezu. I tada je ona otišla praćena sa ostalim djevojkama koje su bile djevojkina posluga, po Zulu pravilima, i ona je stigla do sela  Princa Kakaka. Ali, prije nego je došla do sela trebala je nešto da uradi sa svojim repom, jer je imala je oblik promjenjene žene, nekako, da sakrije rep. Tako, ona je prislilila princezu da napravi mrežu od pruća i ona je stavila rep unutra i zategla-svezala mrežu za svoje tijelo. Ona je sada izgledala kao Zulu žena sa atraktivnom stražnjicom-sa velikm dupetom, kada se gleda sa strane.

I tada, kada su stigli ona postade žena princa, i čudne stvari poćeše da se dešavaju u selu. Svo mlijeku poće da nestaje svake noći zato što je promjenjena princeza, lažna princeza, oslobadjala njen rep, ona je sisale svo mlijeko kroz rupu na njenom repu. I svekrva reče, "Šta je ovo? Zašto mlijeko nestaje?" Tada ona reče, "Ne, ja vidim, postoji Imbulu medju nama."

Svekrva, koja je bila pametna stara žena, reče, "Iskopat ćemo veliku rupu i nasuti mlijeko u nju." I to je uradjeno. I tada, svim djevojkama je rečeno da preskoče preko te rupe. Jedna po jedna, one su preskakale. I kada je došao red na promjenjenu princezu, ona je prisiljena da preskoći, ali kada je preskočila njen dugi rep je iskočio napolje iz mreže i počeo je da skuplja mlijeko kroz rupu, i ratnici ubiše promjenjenu princezu. I onda, prava Princeza Khombecansini postade žena kralja -Kralja Kakaka.

Sada, gospodine, ova priča ima mnoge verzija o njoj. U cijeloj Južnoj Africi, medju mnogim plemenima, naći ćete priče o ovim zapanjujućim kreaturama koje su sposobne da se promjene iz reptila u ljudsko biće, i iz reptila u bilo koju životinju po njihovom izboru. I ove krature, gospodine, stvarno postoje. Nije važno gdje idete, po Južnim, Istočnim, Zapadnim, ili Centralnim djelovima Afrike, naći ćete iste opise ovih kreatura. Čak i medju plemenima koja nikad, kroz njihovu dugu istoriju, nisu nikad imali kontakt medju sobom.

Tako, POSTOJE takve kreature. Odakle su došli, ja nikad nisam tvrdio da znam, gospodine. Ali oni pripadaju odredjenim zvjezdama na nebu, i jedna od tih zvjezda je velika grupa zvjezda koja je dio Mlječnog Puta (Milky Way), a naš narod ga zove Ingiyab, što znači "Velika Zmijaja-The Great Serpent". I postoji crvena zvijeda, crvenkasta zvjezda, blizu šiljka-krajička (the tip) ovog velikog prstena zvijezda koje naš narod zove IsoneNkanyamba.

Sada, ova zvjezda se zove IsoneNkanyamba, ja sam pronašao Englesko ime. To je zvjezda koja se zove Alpha Centauri, na Engleskokom. Sada, ova zvjezda gospodine, je nešto što je vrijedno istražiti. Zašto preko 500 plemena u dijelovima Afrike, koje sam ja posjetio u zadnjih 40 ili 50 godina ili više, i svi oni opisuju slične kreature?

Rečeno je da se ta bića hrane na nama ljudskim bićima; da su oni jednom, izazvali Boga Lično u rat, jer su oni željeli punu kontrolu univerzuma-svemira. I Bog je borio strašnu bitku protiv njih, i On ih je porazio, povrijedio i prisilio ih da se sakrivaju u podzemnim gradovima.

Oni se sakrivaju u dubokim podzemnim pećinama, jer im je stalno hladno. U tim pećinama, tako nam je rečeno, postoje velike vatre koje održavaju upaljenim, ljudi robovi, kao zombi robovi. I sljedeće je rečeno da se ti Zuswazi, ti Imbulu, ili kako god ih nazoveš, nisu sposobni da jedu čvrstu hranu. Oni jedu-piju ljudsku krv, ili oni crpe-jedu snagu, energiju koja se proizvede kada se ljudska bića, na površini Zemlje, bore ili ubijaju jedni druge u velikom broju.

Sreo sam narod Masaki u Ruandi koji su pobjegli ranije, prije nekoliko godina, i ti ljudi su užasnuti šta se desilo u njihovoj zemlji. Oni kažu da je tamanjenje Hutu naroda od strane Watusi naroda i tamanjenje Watusi naroda od strane Hutu naroda, u stvari stvarno hranjenje Imanujela, čudovišta. Zato što Imanujela u stvari udiše energiju koja je proizvedena od mase naroda koji su prestravljeni, uplašeni (terrified) ili bili ubijeni od drugog naroda.

Komentar R.B. Dragi čitaoci, kada sam pročitao i preveo ovaj gornji ( gorbji ) pasus, sjetio sam se moje web stranice koju sam uradio mnogo, mnogo prije nego što sam ovaj članak vidio i pročitao, pročitajte šta sam napisao u Februaru 2000 godine, šta mislim....osjećam, a svima nama na planeti Zemlji je to napotrebnije, klikni ovdje pa se obavezno vrati na ovu stranicu i nastavi čitanje.

Da li ste još uvijek sa mnom, gospodine?

Martin: Da, ja sam kompletno sa tobom, slušam te.

Credo Mutwa: Sada, dozvoli mi da kažem interesantnu stvar, gospodine. Ako pručavate jezike svih Afričkih nacija, naći ćeš u jeziku naših naroda riječi koje su slične Orijentalnim, Srednje Istočnim, i čak se nalaze kod riječi Američkih Indijanaca ( Native American words ). I riječ Imanujela znači :" Gospodar koji je došao" -  "the Lord who came". Riječ koju bilo ko može otkriti u Ruandi, medju Ruanda, Huti i Watusi narodu, je veoma slična Jevrejskoj riječi Immanuel ( the Herbrew word Immanuel ) , što znači "Gospodar je sa nama" - "the Lord is with us". Imanujela, "oni koji su došli, Gospodari koji su ovdje" - "the ones who came, the Lords who are here".

( Riječ IMANUJELA po R. B. klikni klikni ovdje i pogledaj pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

Naš narod vjeruje, gospodine, da mi, ljudi na planeti Zemlji, nismo gospodari naših vlastitih života, stvarno, nama je napravljeno da mislimo da smo to što smo. ( Our people believe, sir, that we, the people of this Earth, are not masters of our own lives, really, although we are made to think that we are). Naš narod kaže, da je, Crni narod svih plemena, svi koji su jednom započeti ( all of the initiated ones ), svi šamani bilo gdje u Africi, kada počnu da ti vjeruju i podjele njihove najdublje-najskrivenije tajne sa tobom, oni kažu da [sa] Imanujela, postoji-ima Imbulu ( there is Imbulu). I postoji drugo ime pod kojim je ova kreatura poznata. To ime je Chitauli. Sada, riječ Chitauili znači "diktatori, oni koji su nam rekli zakon" - "the dictators, the ones who tell us the law". Drugačije rečeno "oni koji su nam rekli, tajno, šta mi da radimo" - "they who tell us, secretly, what we are to do". Sada, to je rečeno da ti Chituali su uradili brojne stvari nama, kada su došli do ove planete.

( Riječ CHITAULI po R.B, i pojam kako ga je objasnio ( objasbio )  Credo Mutwa ima veliku sličnost sa ovom figurom od gline, klikni i pogledaj  pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

Molim te oprosti mi, ali ja moram ovu priču podijeliti sa tobom. Ovo je jedna od najčudnijih priča koju možeš naći u Africi u šamanskim tajnim društvima i ostalim mjestima ostalim -preostalim od našeg starinskog znanja i mudrosti koje su još sačuvane. To je da, originalno, Zemlja je bila pokrivena sa pokrovom ( blanket - pokrivać,ćebe) veoma tankim slojem magle. Da ljudi u stvari nisu vidjeli Sunce na nebu, osim kao raspršeno-diffuzno pokretno svjetlo.   ( nimble-žustar, okretan, brz, hitar ). Oni su takodjer vidjeli Mjesec noću kao nježan krug, sličan noktu na prstu ili kandji  ( claw-nokat, kandja ) kada je Mjesec na nebu bio u svojim četvrtima, zato što je stalno bila velika vlažnost. I kiša je stalno padala u obliku sitne kiže, kiša koja rominja. U stvari, nije bilo grmljavine. Nije bilo oluja.

Svijet je bio pokriven sa velikim šumama, velikim djunglama, i ljudi su živjeli u miru na planeti Zemlji u to vrijeme. Ljudi su bili sretni i rečeno je, da u to vrijeme, mi ljudska bića nismo imali sposobnost govora. Mi smo samo pravili neke zabavne glasove kao majmuni i babuni, ali mi nismo imali govor kao što sada imamo. I u svim tim vjekovima, ljudi su govorili drugim ljudima kroz njihov um.

Čovjek je zvao svoju ženu misleći o njoj, misleći o njenom obliku lica, (misrisa ) mirisu njenog tijela, i osjećajem njene kose kao žene. Tada bi lovac otišao u nisko rastinje ( the bush ) i pozvao bi životinje da dodju, i životinje bi izabrale jednu od njihovog broja koja je bila stara i umorna, i ta životinja bi ponudila sebe tom lovcu tako da on može da je ubije i to brzo i odnese njeno meso do svoje pećine.

Nije bilo nasilja protiv životinja. Nije bilo nasilja protiv Prirode od ljudskih bića u to vrijeme. Čovjek je pitao za hranu od Prirode. Došao bi pod drvo i mislio o voću, i drvo bi mu dozvolilo nešto od tog voća da padne na zemlju, i čovjek bi ga uzeo.

I tada je rečeno, takodjer, da kada Chitauli dodje do Zemlje, oni su došli u užasnim brodovima - ladjama koje su letjele kroz vazduh - zrak koje su imale oblike velike udubljene kugle, zdjele   (bowls ) i pravile su užasan šum, užasnu buku, i užasnu vatru na nebu. I Chituali je rekao ljudskim bićima, koje su oni sakupili, skupili, okupili prisilno sa štapovima koji su izbacivali munje, da su oni veliki bogovi sa neba i da od sada će oni primiti brojne velike poklone od bogova. Ti takozvani bogovi, koji su izgledali kao ljudska bića, ali veoma visoka, sa dugim repom, i užasnim gorećim očima, neki od njih su imali dva oka-žuta, svjetle- svjetleće oči-neki su imali tri oka, crveno, okruglo oko u centru čela. Ove kreature su tada oduzele velike moći koje su ljudska bića imala: moć govora kroz um, moć pokretanja objekata sa samo njihovim umom-samo putem misli, moć vidjenja u budućnost i u njihovu prošlost, i moć da putuju, duhovno, do različitih svjetova.

Sva od ovih velikih moći Chitauli su oduzeli od ljudskih bića i dali ljudskim bićima novu moć, sada, moć govora. Ali, ljudska bića nadjoše, na njihov užas, da moć govora podijeli ljudska bića, umjesto da ih ujedini, zato što Chituali lukavo kreirao-napravio različite jezike, i oni su prouzrokovali velik       (quarrel) izmedju ljudi.  Takodjer, Chituali su uradili nešto što nikad nije bilo prije dano ljudskim bićima da upravljaju nad njima, i oni su rekli, " Ovo su vaši kraljevi, ovo su vaši šefovi. Oni imaju našu krv u njima. Oni su naša djeca, i vi morate da slušate ove ljude zato što oni govore u naše ime. Ako ih ne budete slušali, mi ćemo vas kazniti veoma užasno." - "These are your kings, these are your chiefs. They have our blood in them. They are our children, and you must listen to these people because they will speak on our behalf. If you don't, we are going punish you very terribly."

Prije dolaska Chitauli, prije dolaska Imbulu kreatura, ljudska bića bila su duhovno jedno  (duhovono) Ali kada su Chitauli došli, ljudska bića postaju podijeljena, dvojno duhovno kao i sa  jezikom (language).

( Riječ JEZIK-LANGUAGE po R. B. klikni klikni ovdje i pogledaj pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

I tada, ljudskim bićima je dat (programiran) čudan novi osjećaj-osjećanje od strane Chitauli. Ljudska bića počela su se osjećati nesigurno, i tako oni su počeli da prave sela sa veoma jakim ogradama od drveta oko njih. Ljudska bića počela su da djele zemlju (becoming country makers). Drugačije rečeno, počeli su pravljenje-kreiranje plemena i plemenske zemlje, koja je imala granice, koju su oni branili protiv bilo kojeg mogućeg neprijatelja. Ljudska bića postaše ambiciozna i pohlepna i oni su željeli da steknu bogatstvo u formi da imaju mnogo stoke, i morskih školjki.

I, druga stvar je da je Chitauli prisilio ljudska bića, oni su prisilili ljudska bića da kopaju u Zemlju      ( da se bave rudarstvom ). Chitauli su aktivirali ljudsku ženu i napravili njih da odkriju minerale i metale odredjenih tipova. Žene su otkrile bakar ( BA  KA  R ), žene su odkrile zlato ( ZLA  TO ), žene su odkrile srebro (srero) ( S  REBRO ).  I, mogućno, one su vodjene od Chitauli da mješaju te metale i kreiraju-naprave nove metale-legure koje nikad nisu postojale u Prirodi prije, metali kao što su bronza i mesing i ostali.

Sada, Chitauli, sljedeće, skinuo je svetu kišu-koja je donosila vlažnost sa neba i po prvi put od stvaranje, ljudska bića su pogedala gore i vidjeli zvjezde, i Chitauli je rekao ljudskim bićima da su oni krivo vjerovali da Bog boravi ispod Zemlje. " Od sada " Chitauli je rekao ljudima ove Zemlje,    " ljudi Zemlje moraju vjerovati da Bog je u Nebesima i moraju raditi stvari ovdje na Zemlji koje će zadovoljiti Boga na Nebesima."

Vidiš, originalno, ljudska bića su vjerovala da Bog je u podzemlju, da ona je velika majka koja boravi ispod Zemlje zato što su svi vidjeli da zelene stvari niču-rastu ispod Zemlje-trava dolazi ispod zemlje-tla, drveće izrasta ispod zemlje, i ljudi su vjerovali, svakako, da mrtvi ljudi koji umru idu u podzemlje. Ali kada je Chitauli  okrenuo ljudske oči prema nebu, ljudi počeše da vjeruju, sada, da Bog je u nebu i da oni koji umru na ovoj Zemlji ne idu u podzemlje, ali idu gore u nebo.

I do ovog dana, gospodine, kroz cijelu Afriku ti ideš da ispituješ, ti ćeš naći ovu začudjujuću-ove začudjujuće ideje koje se u sukobu sa svakom drugom.

Mnoga Afrička plemena vjeruju u šta se zove  Midzimu ili Badimo. Sada, riječ Midzimu ili Badimo znači "njihovi koji su u nebu - them who are in the sky". Ali, u  Zulu zemlji, medju mojim ljudima, ti nalaziš ovo začudjujuće otpadništvo nastavlja se iz ruke u ruku  ( schism going hand-in-hand ). Postoje Zului koji vjeruju da mrtvi dragi su Abapansi, što znači " oni koji su ispod, koji su pod Zemljom - the ones who are below, who are under the Earth". Tada postoji druga ideja koja kaže Abapezulu. Riječ Abapezulu znači " oni koji su gore - those who are above", i riječ Abapansi, što je najstarije ime za duhove mrtvih, znači " oni koji su pod Zemljom - they who are under the Earth".

Tako, čak i danas, gospodine, u cijeloj Africi izmedju stotina plemena, ti nalaziš čudno duplo-vjerovanje da mrtvi idu u nebo, i pored toga vjerovanje da mrtvi umru i idu pod Zemlju. Ovo vjerovanje da mrtvi umru i idu pod Zemlju je rečeno do današnjih dana kada je naš narod vjerovao da pravovjerni Bog bila je Žena, ( believed that God was a woman ) velika Kosmička Majka. I to je suprostavljeno Abapezulu vjerovanju da Bog je muškarac koji boravi u nebu.

Sada, gospodine, druga stvar koju je Chitauli rekao ljudima, to je rečeno, je da mi ljudska bića smo ovdje na Zemlji da promjenimo Zemlju i napravimo je pogodnu za "Bog-a - God" da dodje dole jednog dana i boravi u tom - to come down one day and dwell in it. I to je rečeno da ljudi koji rade da promjene Zemlju i naprave je sigurnom za zmijskog boga - serpent god, Chitauli, da dodje i boravi u tom, će biti nagradjeni sa velikom moći i velikim bogatstvom.

Gospodine, pošto sam ja posmatrao i kroz mnoge godine proučavao, kroz mnoge godine inicijacija misterija Afričkog Šamanizma, mudrost, i znanje, ja sam pronašao lično i postao zabrinut zašto mi ljudska bića U   STVARI  UNIŠTAVAMO  ZEMLJU  NA  KOJOJ  ŽIVIMO. Mi činimo nešto što je jedino uradjeno od strane jedne vrste afričke životinje, po imenu, Afrički slon, koji potpuno uništava svako drvo u mjestu u kojem boravi.

( I have found myself wondering why we human beings are actually destroying the Earth on which we live. We are doing something which is only done by one other species of animal, namely, the African elephant, which utterly destroys every tree in the place in which it dwells.)

Komentar R.B. Ovog momenta sam shavatio zašto je Afrički slon postao zaštičena životinja i od koga. Dragi čitaoci, kada sam pročitao i preveo ovaj gornji pasus, postaje jasno nešto što većina vas ne vidi kao prijetnju nama samim, ljudskoj rasi. Ova istina u stvari nam otkriva ko nas SPREČAVA u našem ljudskom i zašto. Nemojte sve ovo olako shvatiti  i  šutiti, sve ovo gore napisano. Obavezno se vrati na ovu stranicu i nastavi čitanje.

Mi ljudska bića činimo to isto. I gdje god odeš u Africi, gdje je jednom bila velika civilizacija, naći ćeš pustinju. Na primjer, postoji Kalahari pustinja u Južnoj Africi, i pod pjeskom te pustinje   ( pustonje ), ja sam pronašao ruševine-ostatke starih-antičkih gradova, što znači da su ljudska bića preokrenula tu površnu, koja je jednom bila zelene i plodna, u pustinju. I, kada sam ja sa istraživačima i safari ljudima Afrike bio upodručju Sahara, ja sam pronašao dokaze nevjerovatno starih-antičkih ljudskih staništa u mjestima gdje nema ništa sada osim ljutih stijena i pjeska koji pjevuši ( and whispering sand).

Drugačije rečeno, Sahara Pustinja bila je jednom plodna zemlja i bila je pretvorena u pustinju od strane ljudskih bića. Zašto? Ja moram upitati samog sebe, ponovo i ponovo, zašto ljudska bića su usmjerena-vodjena u nesigurnost, pohlepu i strasnu žudnju moći da preokrenu Zemlju u pustinju u kojoj, na kraju, ni jedno ljudsko biće neće biti sposobno da živi?  Zašto?

Komentar R.B. Opet pogledajte stranicu koja je jednom davno uradjena i odražava mišljenje ljudskog bića koje je dobilo ime Rudolf Bošnjak. Klikni ovdje i uživaj u onom što je još ostalo ili preokreni svoj um i način života, razmišljanja, slanja misli, želja, osjećanja i namjera i kreni u PROMJENE UMA....a za to je potrebno malo volje da klikneš na svog miša i pročitaš ovo ...Obavezno se vrati na ovu stranicu i nastavi čitanje.

I ako mi smo svi svjesni užasne opasnosti koju će to donijeti, zašto mi sječemo velika područja dzungle u Africi? Zašto mi na Zemlji prenosimo instrukcije koje je Chitauli programirao u nas?  I ako moj um odbija da to prihvati, odgovor je užasan da , da, da.

Medju mnogim mudrim ljudima koji su me počastvovali njihovim prijateljstvom, je jedan pun znanja koji živi u Izraelu, Dr. Sitchin. [Urednikova zabilješka: Odnosi se na Dr. Zecharia Sitchin, autora mnogih provokativnih knjiga o medjusobnom odnosu vanzemaljaca sa ljudima planete zemlje u veoma stara antička vremena.] Po starim-antičkim knjigama koje su pisane od ljudi U Sumeriji, na  glinenim pločama (out of clay), bogovi su došli od neba i prisilili ljudska bića da rade za njih, da iskopavaju zlato za njih. Ova priča je potvrdjena kroz Afričke legende u cijeloj Africi, da bogovi su došli od neba i napravili nas njihovim robovima, i napravili nas-pretvorili nas u robove, i napravili nas-pretvorili nas u robove na takav način da mi nikada nećemo prihvatiti-shvatiti da smo mi robovi.

( This story is confirmed by African legends throughout Africa, that gods came out of the sky and made us into their slaves, and they made us into slaves in such a way that we would never realize that we are slaves.)

Jedna druga stvar koju naši ljudi govore je da je Chitauli grabljivo žrtvovao nas. Oni su odgojili neke od nas, oni su ispunili nas sa velikom ljutnjom i velikim abicijama, i oni su takve ljude odgojili kao velike ratnike koji su pravili užasne ratove. Ali, na kraju, Chitauli nisu dozvoljavali tim velikim vodjama, tim velikim ratnim šefovima i kraljevima, da umru mirno-prirodnim smrću. Ratne vodje su korištene da naprave što više ratova, da ubiju što više mogu njihovog naroda, i onih koje su zvali neprijateljima, kao moguće, i tada, na kraju, ratnik šef-vodja umirao bi užasnom smrću, njegova krv je bila prosuta od strane drugih.

I ovaj fenomen ja sam vidio u istoriji mnogih ljudi, ponovo i ponovo i ponovo. Naš najveći Kralj Shaka ( Šaka ) Zulu, borio se u preko 200, dvijestotine velikih ratova i vladao nekih 30-tak godina. I tada, on je bio zaklan i on je umro nasilnom smrću. Umro je kao slomljen čovjek koji, zbog smrti svoje majke, nije imao duže moć da pobjedi ni u jednoj bitci više.

Prije Shaka ( Šaka ) Zulu, bio je drugi kralj koji je trenirao Shaka da postane veliki kralj koji je bio. Tog kralja ime je bilo Dingiswayo. Dingiswayo borio-vojevao je velike ratove pokušavajući da ujedini Zulu narod u jedno veliko pleme. On je vidio Bjele ljude na Kejpu (Cape) i on je mislio da, ako ujedini narod u jednu veliku naciju, on će biti u stanju da ukine prijetnju njegovom narodu koju su Bjelci pokazivali (posed). Ali, šta se desilo, poslije pobjeda u mnogim bitkama ujedinjenja mnogih plemena, Kralj Dingiswayo je iznenada pogodjen očnom bolešću koja ga je učinila skoro sljepim. I on je krio tu tajnu da on ne može više vidjeti. Ali, ta užasna tajna bila je otkrivena od strane žene, kraljice drugog plemena, pozvala je Ntombazi. Ntombazi je uzeo borbenu sjekiru i odsjekao glavu Dingiswayo-u sa jednim udarcem, poslije ona je privukla - namamila  njega u njenu kućicu (hat) i dala njemu hranu i pivo da pije.

Postoji takodjer sličan fenomen sa velikim Bijelim vodjama: Napoleon, u Evropi, koji je umro mizernom smrću na njegovom usamljenom ostrvu u Atlanskom Okeanu; Hitler, takodjer u Evropi, koji je umro užasnom smrću staveći sam sebi pištolju usta i pucajući u samog sebe i na taj način se ubio, rečeno nam je; Atila Hunski vodja, kojeg je ubila žena, i mnogi drugi veliki vodje koji su došli do samog kraja uzrokujući  mnogo smrti i mizerije što većem broju ljudi.

Kralja Šaka odveden u smrt od strane njegovog polu-brata, koji je koristi na njemu istu vrstu koplja koju je on napravio da ubije brzo što veći broj ljudi. I Julije Cezar se sreo sa sličnom sudbinom pošto je on, kao i naš Šaka Zulu, porobio mnoge nacije.

Uvijek ratni heroj umire smrću kojom on, stvarno, ne bi trebao da umre. Kralj Artur, u Engleskoj, bio je ubijen od svog vlastitog sina, (Mordred after a long and courageous reign.) Mogu nastviti dalje i dalje i dalje.

Sada, sve ove stvari, ako ih povezeš zajedno, one pokazuju da bilo da se ljudi smiju ili ne, bilo da se zezaju o tome ili ne, postoji odredjena moć koja vodi nas ljudska bića prema mračnoj strani rijeke samo-uništenja. I uskoro mnogi od nas postaju svjesni ovoga, bolje, možda, mi možemo biti sposobni da radimo na tome.

Martin: Da li vjeruješ da ta bića su svuda oko svijeta, ili su oni primarno usredsredjeni na Afriku?

Credo Mutwa: Gospodine, ja vjerujem da ove kreature su svuda na Zemlji, i sa poštovanjem, gospodine, mrzim govoriti o meni samom tako mnogo, ja sam osoba koja je putovala do mnogih djelova svijeta. Bio sam i u tvojoj zemlji Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama, gospodine. Bio sam u Australiji, bio sam u Japanu, izmedju ostalih zemalja.

I nije važno gdje sam sve bio, gospodine, i ja sam pronašao ljude koji su mi rekli o tim kreaturama kao ova. Na primjer, u 1977, posjetio sam Australiju, gospodine, i putovao sam dosta da pokušam da nadjem Crne ljude Australije, Aboridjine. I kada sam ih našao, oni su mi rekli dosta stvari koje su me začudile veoma, veoma mnogo. Iste stvari koje sam našao u Japanu, našao sam u Tajvanu. Svuda su isti još uvijek šamanski tradicionali iscjeljivači, našao si ove stvari začudjujućim pričama.

Sada, dozvoli mi da kažem, gospodine, šta sam našao u Austarliji. To, da Australijski Aboridjinski narod, koji sebe zove Coorie, što znači "naš naraod": Coorie narod Australije vjeruje u velikog boga kreatora-stvaraoca Byamie, gospodine. Coorie šaman, u stvari, nekoliko njih, crtali - pokazali su mi slike tog Byamie, i jedna od njih pokazujje crtež - sliku na stijeni koja predstavlja tog čudnog boga kreatora  - stvaraoca koji je došao sa zvijezda. I kada su oni stavili svoje crteže pred mene, to što su pokazali bio je Chitauli. Prepoznao sam to iz moje afričke intuicije. To ima veliku glavu, to ima velike oči, koje su dotjerane od strane umjetnika. To nema usta, i to ima duge ruke i nevjerovatno duge noge. Gospodine, to je bio tipično (depiction)  objašnjenje Chitaulija koje ja znam od mog vlastitog naroda u Africi.

Pitao sam samog sebe" Zašto?" Ovdje sam u zemlji mnogo milja daleko od Afrike, i ovdje ja vidim biće poznato kao Biamai ili Bimi, koje je kreatura sa kojom ja, Afrikanac, sam upoznat.

Medju Američkim Starosjediocima-Indijancima, gospodine, ja pronašao sam, na primjer, medju odredjenim plemenima u Americi, plemena kao što su Hopi narod, i taj narod živi u tim zgradama nazvanim pueblo, ja pronašao sam da su ti ljudi-oni su imali to što su  zvali Katchina kreaturama, gdje su ljudi nosili maske i (disguise) sebe kao odredjene kreature. I neki od ovih Katchina su veoma, veoma visoki, sa velikom okruglom glavom.

Tačno ono što mi imamo u Africi, našao sam slične kreature u Americi. U Africi smo ove kreature zvali Egwugwu, ili, mi smo ih zvali sa drugim imenom, nazivali smo ih  Chinyawu. Katchina Američki Starosjedioci i Chinyawu našeg naroda, su identična bića. Sada, zašto bi to bilo? Kada su bili  Američki Starosjedioci i Afrikanci u kontaktu? Kada? Ovo je jedna od velikih misterija svih vremena, gospodine. To je jedna od mnogih stvari koje sam ja pronašao u svijetu koje su me ostavile začudjenim.

POSTOJE takve kreature, i što prije skeptici-sumnjičavci medju nama se suoče sa tim podatkom, bolje to će biti. Zašto ljudska vrsta ne napreduje? Zašto mi trčimo uokolo u velikom krugu samo-uništenja i uzajmnog-uništenja?

Ljudi su u stvari dobri; ja vjerujem to. Ljudi ne žele da počinju ratove. Ljudi ne žele da unište svijet u kojem su, ali postoje kreature, ili postoji moć koja usmjerava ljudska bića prema samo-istrebljenu. I što prije mi to prepoznamo, to bolje.

REST IN ENGLISH, STILL UNDER TRANSLATION

Just now, I live in Africa. Here are my people. Here is my home. But I see Africa being destroyed in wars that make no sense whatsoever to me as an African. I look at India which, like Africa, suffered the scourge of colonialism by the French, the English, and other European powers. But India, through her independence as a country, has achieved the things which we, Africa, have failed to achieve. Why?

India has exploded the atomic bomb and is today one of the feared nations of this world. India has launched satellites into orbit. India, although she has the same problems as Africa has-a burgeoning population, religion as well as tribal strife-although India has got an incredibly poor section of her population, as well as an incredibly rich one, she has achieved things that Africa has failed to achieve.

Now, I ask myself "Why? Why?" Because India was established by people from Africa, and I don't think, sir, as the Black races about this. This is a fact that, thousands of years ago, people from Africa laid the foundation of the greatest civilization of India, as well as other countries in Southeast Asia. There is overwhelming archeological evidence of this. But, why is Africa drowning in war, in disease, and in hunger? Why?

Many times, sir, I sit in my hut and I cry when I see diseases like AIDS destroying us; when I see senseless wars destroying those countries in Africa which had thrived for thousands of years.

Say, Ethiopia is a country that has been free for thousands of years. Ethiopia was once the school of all of Africa. Nigeria was once a great country with a long tradition of self-government-long, long before the White man came to Africa. But today, all of these countries and many others are being destroyed.

Today, sir, there are parts of Africa which have been totally depopulated by war and by the disease called AIDS, a disease which shows every sign of being a man-made disease. I ask myself, "Who or what is destroying Africa, and why?"

Because there are tribes in those villages I lived in, who assisted my search for knowledge, before the Second World War and after. But today these tribes no longer exist anymore. They are gone, dispersed, totally exterminated in senseless wars that gain the Black people nothing.

I am in South Africa now. Here I was born, and here I was to die. But I see my country falling apart like a rotting mango. South Africa was once a powerful country. She had a powerful army. She had huge industries, which were producing everything from locomotives to little radios. But today my country has become a drug-sodden, crime-ridden piece of rubbish. Why? A country doesn't get destroyed almost overnight, unless there are definite forces which are determined to obliterate it.

I recently saw, sir, the destruction of another country inside South Africa. The country is Lesotho. This country, Lesotho, is inhabited by some of the oldest and the wisest tribes in South Africa. Amongst them is a tribe called the Bakwama. The Bakwama people are so ancient that they actually describe to you a mysterious land of huge pointed mountains, a mysterious land ruled by a great god, who had the head of a human being and the body of the lion. [One immediately thinks of the Sphinx in Egypt.]

The Bakwama call this country Ntswama-tfatfi. This land that they name Ntswama-tfatfi means "the land of the Sun-hawk". The hawk is the bird of prey in Heaven-you know? Now, these Bakwama people did, in South Africa, know about the land of Egypt where they say their ancestors came from. And they call this mysterious land of the gods, "the land of the Sun-hawk, or the Sun-eagle", which is exactly how the Egyptians portrayed their country, sir. They portrayed it as "the land of Hor", the god Horus in Greece.

Now, when Princess Diana died, in 1997, I was one of the first Black people to suspect that Princess Diana had been murdered, and I will tell you why this thing happened, sir. Because, about a year or 8 months before Diana died, there died a king in Lesotho, King Moshoeshoe II. King Moshoeshoe II's death was detail-for-detail identical to Princess Diana's death.

Consider this please, all of you who might find my words incredible: Princess Diana died in a tunnel, but the king of Lesotho died in a ravine. He had gone far away to investigate a problem in his cattle ranch. It was found that he was overdue, and when the people went to search for him, they heard from various boys who were looking after the cattle in the Basotho-land mountains, that the boys had heard what sounded like a rifle shot, and when the men went to look where the rifle shot had sounded, they found the king's car off the road and deep in the ravine. They went down their and they found that the king of Lesotho was in his car. He was strapped in a safety belt, but he had a terrible injury at the back of his head. And they found that the king's driver was dead at the steering wheel. But, the two men who were the king's bodyguards, who were riding in the king's vehicle in the seat directly behind the king, had escaped without a scratch. One of the men entered the car and pulled out the dying king. The king apologized to them for messing-up their hands with his blood, which was a tradition, that a dying king must thank the people who are trying to get him out of where he is. And he must apologize to them for putting them into trouble, because anyone who handles the sacred blood of the king is in spiritual trouble of some kind after that.

Then, when the king's car was brought out of the ravine, it was found that there was a hole, like a bullet hole, in one of the tires of the car. And that car's tire was mysteriously removed, afterwards, when the king's car was stored not in a safe place, but in a yard outside where anybody could get at it. And, when an autopsy was conducted on the body of the driver of the king's car, it was found that the man had been so drunk as to not have been able to drive the car at all. And third, the man who had driven the king's car and who died at the wheel had not been the man who usually drives the king's car.

Now, sir, do you see this mystery now? The death of the Lesotho king matched that of Princess Diana, which was to follow it. In many other amazing details than I have detailed now, and so the nation of Lesotho was reduced to a retch after the king's death, when rioting took place as a result of a general election which provisional party members prospected and controlled.

Today Lesotho is an economically moribund nation. And Lesotho is a country which was the place of a strange experiment-an experiment which consisted of the building of a huge dam, whose purpose was to supply South Africa, and not Lesotho, with large quantities of water. And we have recently heard ugly rumors emanating from that country, that somebody was bribed to facilitate the building of this huge dam where the water of a small nation is being used to supply, to supplement the water supplies of a highly industrialized nation.

There are many strange things, sir, which have taken place in South Africa, and are taking place, as well as in other parts of Africa, which make no sense to me as an African. There are wars which take place in Africa, where after an African country has gained its independence from the colonial power, then a force of rebels pick up weapons against that country's government, but instead of the rebels fighting the government to the bitter end, what happens again and again is that the rebel forces split into various groups which end up fighting not only the government in power, but also each other. And the result is that, in several African countries, the country is so destroyed that, no matter which party wins, the people lose. The United Nations are caused to be called in, in order to create some semblance of peace. In other words, Africans have now started fighting wars which bring about not victory, but the destruction of themselves, as well as their people.

I would like to draw your attention, sir, to the senseless tide which is still raging in the Sudan, as well as other parts of Africa. I would like to draw your attention, sir, to the longest and most terrible civil war which is destroying the southern parts of the Sudan. I would like to draw your attention, and that of your readers, sir, to the terrible war which is destroying Angola. And one part of the world, to the East of Southern Africa, has been so raped by many years of war that there are now places where you don't even hear a bird-thing. All living forms of life have been wiped-out in that place. Now, why?

And then, I have found that these countries that are being destroyed by senseless wars which are totally out of character for us Africans, and I speak as an African, are those countries which, had they been left alone, could have supplied the whole of Africa with food, with water, and with valuable minerals. I am told, sir, that under the surface of Angola, under the plains of Angola, are deposits of coal which are without equal in this world. I am further told that in parts of Angola there are deposits of oil which are second only to those reserves of oil which are in the Middle East.

The Sudan is a country which I visited several times during, and even after, the Second World War. In the Sudan there was so much food that you received free food from the villagers, as you traveled through the Sudan. Today, southern Sudan is a starvation-torn, battle of rage hellhole where children die of diarrhea in the bush while the vultures and buzzards wait on the branches of trees to feast. Africa is being systematically and deliberately destroyed by a power of such relentlessness that it is continuing the destruction even now.

But, this power is getting desperate.

Martin: Excuse me. Did you say there was coal in Angola or gold?

Credo Mutwa: Coal, sir, coal. There are diamonds in Angola, sir. And I have learned from reliable people that there is more oil under Angola, in certain places, than there is in certain parts of the Middle East.

Is this what Africa is being destroyed for? Is this what our nations are being slaughtered for-for coal under the surface, for diamonds? If so, who is this intelligence that is behind this? Are people less valuable than minerals? Are people less valuable than oil?

Because, sir, genocide, worse than anything that Hitler ever committed upon the Jewish people, is taking place in Africa NOW, and the people of America don't seem to care a damn. Why? We are the best friends that the United States has got. We are the best people. We buy American products. Our children want to look like American children. Our kids wear jeans, sir, and they even speak with American accents, because you American people are our role model. Why are you allowing us to be slaughtered? Why? Why?

Not only are we being killed by war, sir, we are being killed by drugs. There were no drugs in South Africa during the days of the apartheid government. Now, under our democratic government, our country has become one drug-sodden cess pit. Why?

Today, sir, and I speak as a traditional shaman, one of my purposes is to try and help people with a drug problem. Sir, I can help a young African who is abusing marijuana or hashish. I can help a young African who is dependent upon Dakwa. But, sir, I am useless, my skills are rubbish and I fail again-and so do many like me-to help young Black people who are addicted to a new type of drug which is called "crack". It is a hard-looking drug. It's like hardened chocolate when you see it, and this thing is so addictive that no shaman can help a young victim of this drug.

I am asking the people of the United States of America, I am asking my Black brothers and my Black sisters over there, why are you allowing the country which is your mother to be exterminated?

I don't care what skeptics say, sir. Please forgive me when I really get hot under the collar. I don't care what skeptics say, but there IS a force destroying Africa and I am not buying the nonsense that it is the bankers of the IMF and other big banks. You don't kill the goose that gives you the golden egg, so why would the bankers want to destroy Africa? There is another force behind these people, a terrible, alien force, which does things behind the scenes which-and the sooner we recognize this, the better-sir, it is very common for human beings who are in trouble to blame forces other than those inside themselves.

But, I have studied the situation in Africa since the end of the Second World War, and before, and I have evidence that points to an alien force at work in Africa.

What, who is wiping out Africa's oldest tribes?

Please, sir, let me tell you a thing that cuts my soul. May I please?

Martin: Please, continue.

Credo Mutwa: Please, I'm sorry to talk so much. Please forgive me. I belong to the Zulu nation, a nation of warriors, a nation of wise people. My people, sir, have never been studied by White anthropologists thoroughly, but the Zulu people knew things that, if I were to share with your readers, they would be amazed.

Let me show you this. The Zulu people KNEW, amongst many things, that it is the Earth which moves around the Sun, and not the other way around. They said, to explain this thing to the initiated, that the Earth is a feminine creature and the Sun is a male creature, and, therefore, the Earth is the mobile one who dances around the Sun-the beautiful princess who dances around the fiery king who is the Sun. Our people knew that the Earth was a sphere. Our people knew about germs and their function. When the White man came to Africa, where did this incredible knowledge come from? I do not know.

The people of America and the people of Europe say that it was Albert Einstein who came out with the idea that time and space are one and the same thing. My answer to that is, "No!"

My people, the Zulus, knew that space and time was one thing. In the language of the Zulu, one of the names for space is umkati. And the Zulu name for time is isikati. Now, our people knew that space and time were one and the same thing, hundreds of years before Einstein's birth.

And furthermore, our people believed, like the Dogon people, that there are 24 planets in our part of space which are inhabited by intelligent creatures of various states. And, this knowledge has never been recorded in any book, and I and my aunt are the only surviving high sanusi [shaman] in South Africa who are the keepers of this knowledge. My aunt is still alive. She is about 90-something years old, and I am now close to dead, suffering from diabetes-a terrible killer of African people nowadays.

And, what I am trying to tell you is that, although my people had this tremendous knowledge, which has never been written down in any book, the Zulu people today, a huge percentage of them, are victims of HIV or outright AIDS. And it has been calculated, sir, in the next 50 years, fully three-fourths of the Zulu people in Natal are going to die. And I am the keeper of sacred objects which I inherited from my grandfather. I am, from my mother's side, a direct descendant of the last true Zulu king, Dingame. And, my duty should be to protect my people from anything that threatens their existence.

Look, please, sir. Anyone who studies humanity with love, with understanding, and with care, recognizes the fact that there is a shining God which is struggling to be born within each and every one of us. We are trying to fight back, although many of us are not yet aware of this. We are developing an attitude of wanting to protect our planet, no matter who or what we are.

There are chiefs in Africa who fine you very heavily if they see you destroying a tree unnecessarily. This thing was common in the past, but it disappeared with the coming of the White people; but now it has come back again.

Man is becoming, is struggling to become a more advanced, more caring being, and the aliens are not going to take this lying down. They are going to cause us to kill each other, again. And I am worried about what is going to happen.

Sir, I can show you many strange things that African people did to protect themselves against the Grey aliens. The things that our people did were not the result of superstition. They were the result of terrible personal experience.

One day I hope to share with you, sir, the story of how I got "taken", we say. We believe, sir, that the Mantindane ("the tormentor"), the Greys, are really servants of the Chitauli. And that they, contrary to what White people think-White people think a wrong thing, sir, many-that the Mantindane are experimenting with us. They are NOT. I repeat, they are not.

Anyone who has been through the hells of these beings will tell you that there is nothing experimental in what they do. There is a cold, cold, cold-blooded resolve, and they are not doing what they do to us for themselves, they are doing what they do to us for greater creatures than they are. Please, sir, can you give me a little time to share with you, briefly, what happened to me?

Martin: Oh yes, absolutely, please. We have all the time you need.

Credo Mutwa: Sir, it was an ordinary day, like any other day. It was a beautiful day in the eastern mountains of Zimbabwe, which are called Inyangani. These are mountains to the East of Zimbabwe.

Now, I had been instructed by my teacher to go and find a special herb which we were going to use in the healing of a certain initiate who was badly ill. And my teacher, a woman called Mrs. Moyo, was Ndebele, from Zimbabwe, once known as Rhodesia.

I was looking for this herb, and I was not thinking about anything, and I had no belief whatsoever in these creatures. I had never encountered them before, and although we African people believe in many things, I was mighty skeptical, even about certain entities that we believed in at that time, because I had never encountered anything like that before.

And all of a sudden, sir, I noticed that the temperature around me had dropped, although it was a very hot African day. I suddenly noticed that it was now cold and there was, what appeared to be, a bright blue mist swirling all around me, getting between me and the eastern landscape. I remember wondering, stupidly, what this thing meant, because I had just begun to dig one of the herbs I had found.

Suddenly, I found myself in a very strange place, a place that looked like a tunnel lined with metal. I had worked in mines before, and where I found myself appeared to be a mine tunnel which was lined with silver-greyish metal.

I was lying on what appeared to be a very heavy and very large working bench or a working table, sir. But yet, I was not chained to the table. I was just lying there and my trousers were missing, and so were the heavy boots that I always wore when I was out in the bush. And all of a sudden, in this strange, tunnel-like room, I saw what appeared to be dull, heady-looking, grey, dull-like creatures which were moving toward me.

There were lights in this place, but not lights as we know them. They seemed to be patches of glowing stuff. And there was something above the far entrance which looked like writing, that writing against the silver-grey surface, and these creatures were coming at me but I was hypnotized, just as if the witchcraft had been put upon my head.

But I watched the creatures as they were coming towards me. I didn't know what they were. I was frightened, but I couldn't move my arms or my legs. I just lay there like a goat on a sacrificial altar. And when the creatures came towards me, I felt fear inside me. They were short creatures, about the size of African Pigmy. They have very large heads, very thin arms, and very thin legs.

I noticed, sir, because I am an artist, a painter, that these creatures were built all wrong from an artist's point of view. Their limbs were too long for their body, and their necks were very thin, and their heads were almost as large as full-grown watermelons. They had strange eyes, which looked like goggles of some kind. They had no noses, as we have, only small holes on either side of the raised area between their eyes. Their mouth had no lips, only thin cuts as if made by a razor.

And while I was looking at these creatures, sir, in amazed fascination, I felt something close to my head, about my head. And when I looked up, there was another creature, a slightly bigger one than the other, and it was standing above my head and was looking down at me.

I looked up into its eyes and I was totally hypnotized, and you know, I was spellbound. I looked into the thing's eyes and I noticed that the creature wanted me to keep looking into his eyes. I looked and saw that, through these covers over their eyes, I could see the creature's real eyes behind this black, goggle-like cover. It's eyes were round, with straight pupils, like those of a cat. And the thing was not moving it's head. It was breathing; I could see that. I could see little nostrils moving, closing and shutting, but sir, if anybody says to me that I smelled like that creature, really, I would konk him one on the face.

Martin: (Smije se)

Credo Mutwa: The creature smelled like nobody's business. It had a strange smell, a throat-tightening, chemical smell, which smelled like rotten eggs, and also like hot copper [sulfur], a very strong smell.

And the creature saw me looking at it, and it looked down at me and, all of a sudden, I felt a terrible, awful pain on my left thigh, as if a sword had been driven into my left thigh. I screamed in pain, horrible, calling out for my mother, and the creature placed it's hand over my mouth. You know, sir, it was like-if you want to know how that felt, please sir, take the leg of a chicken, a live chicken, and place it against your lips. That was how the creature's hand felt upon my mouth.

It had thin, long fingers, which had more joints than my human fingers have. And the thumb was in the wrong place. Each one of the fingers ended in a black claw, almost like certain African birds. The thing was telling me to be quiet. And how long the pain went on, sir, I don't know. I screamed and I screamed and I screamed, again.

And then, all of a sudden, something was pulled out of my flesh, and I looked down and saw my thigh covered with blood, and I saw that one of the creatures-there were four of them, other than the one standing over my head-they wore tight fitting overalls, which were silvery-grey in color, and their flesh resembled the flesh of certain types of fish that we find in the sea off South Africa. And the creature standing above my head appeared to be a female. It was somehow different than the others. It was taller, bigger, although it didn't have breasts like a woman, it appeared to be feminine. And the others appeared to be afraid of it, I don't know how I can describe this.

And then, while this terrible thing was going on, another of the creatures came up to me-it walked sideways, in a slightly jerking way, as if it was drunk-it walked up along the table, to my right side, and it stood next to the one standing above my head. And before I knew what was happening, this creature stuck something that was like a small, silver, ball-point pen with a cable at one end, it pushed this thing, coldly, into my right nostril.

Sir, the pain was out of this world. Blood splattered all over. I choked and tried to scream, but the blood got into my throat. It was a nightmare. Then, it pulled the thing out and I tried to fight and sit up.

The pain was terrible, but the other thing above my head placed it's hand upon my forehead and kept me down with very little force. I was choking and trying to spit out the blood, and then I managed to turn my head to the right to spit out the blood, which I did, and then what the creatures did to me, sir, I don't know.

All I do know is that the pain went away, and in place of the pain, strange visions flooded my head, visions of cities, some of which I recognized from my travels-but, cities which were half-destroyed, the buildings having their tops blown away, with windows like empty eye-sockets in a human skull. I saw these visions again and again. All the buildings that I saw were half-drowned in a reddish, muddish water.

It was as if there had been a flood and the buildings were sticking up out of this great flood, partly destroyed by a disaster of some kind, and it was a terrible sight.

And then, before I knew it, one of the creatures, the one standing next to my feet, drove something into my organ of manhood, but here there was no pain, just a violent irritation, as if I was making love to something or someone.

And then, when the creature withdrew the thing, which was like a small, black tube which it had forced into my organ of manhood, I did something which produced a strange result, and I did not do it intentionally. I think it was-my bladder opened, and I urinated straight into the chest of the creature which had pulled the thing out of my organ.

And if I had shot the creature, it would never have reacted as it did. It jerked away and nearly fell, and then it recovered and staggered away like a drunken insect, and left the room. I don't know whether my urine did it; I don't know. But that is what happened.

Then, after a while, the other creatures went away, leaving me with a dull pain in my nostril, with blood on my thigh, and the table wet with urine. And the thing standing above my head had not moved. It just stood there with it's right hand touching it's left shoulder, in a strangely beautiful and feminine way. It stood there looking at me. There was no expression in its face. I never saw any of the creatures talk or make any sound of any kind. All I do know is that they appeared to be mute.

And then, out of somewhere there arrived two other creatures, one of which was made entirely out of metal. Even in my worst nightmares, I still see this creature. It was tall. It was big. And the area in which we were was too small for it. It walked with a slight stoop, moving forward, and it was definitely not a living thing. It was a metal creature, a robot of some kind. And it came and it stood near my feet, its whole body clumsily bent, looking down at me. There was no mouth. There was no nose. There were just two bright eyes, which seemed to change color, and seemed to move somehow, like the crackling of an electrical device.

And then, behind this huge, bent creature, came a creature which surprised me. It was very, very, very, very swollen, sir, in appearance. It had pink skin. It had a blondish, very human body. It had very bright, blue, slanting eyes. It had hair which looked like nylon fiber of some kind. It had high cheek-bones and an almost human mouth, with full lips and a small, pointed chin. The creature, sir, was definitely a female but like an artist and a painter, which I am, and also a sculptor, I noticed that the creature was totally out of proportion. It was wrong.

First, its breasts were thin and pointed, and set too high upon its chest, not where a normal woman's breasts would be. Its body was powerful, almost fat, but its legs were too short and its arms were too short in proportion to the rest of its body. And it came towards me, looked down at me, and before I knew what it was doing, somehow it mated with me. It was a horrible experience, sir, even worse than what had been done to me before. But even now, the trauma of that day had affected my life even now, exactly 40 years later.

And after that, when the creatures had gone, leaving only the one creature which had been standing about my head, the creature standing about my head shook me by the hair, it gripped me by the head and forced me to stand off the table and to get off the table. I did that, and such was the state that I was in, that I fell onto my knees and hands, onto the floor.

And I noticed that that floor was strange. It had moving patterns in it, which kept on changing and shifting-purple, red, and greenish patterns, on a metal-grey background. And the creature pulled me by the hair, again, forcing me to stand up, and it pushed me roughly and made me follow it.

Sir, it would take too long for me to describe what I saw in that strange place, as the creature pushed me, roughly, from room to room. Even now my mind can't grasp what it was that I saw. Amongst many things that I saw were huge cylindrical objects, made of what appeared to be glass of some kind. And in these object, cylinders, which reached from the roof to the floor of the place we were going through, was what appeared to be a sort-of a greyish-pink liquid. And in this liquid I saw small editions of the alien creatures floating round and round, like disgusting little frogs, inside this liquid.

I couldn't understand what it was that I was being shown. But then, in the last room I was led through, I saw people, and other strange creatures, which, even now, my mind can't make head or sense out of, lying on the table.

And I passed a White man, a real White man, who smelled like a human being, was smelling of sweat, urine, excrement, and fear. This White man was lying on a table like the one I had been lying on, and I looked into his eyes and he looked into mine as I went by.

And then I found myself out in the bush. I found that my trousers were missing. There was a terrible pain in my left thigh. There was a pain in my penis which was starting to swell, and when I tried to pass water, the pain was excruciating. I took off my shirt and I used it as a loin-cloth and I walked through the bush.

I first met a group of young Rhodesian Black people who guided me to my teacher's village. And when I arrived outside that village, I smelled so horribly that every dog in the village came yapping and snarling to tear me to pieces. And it was only my teacher and her other students and the villagers who saved me on that day. My teacher and the villagers were not at all surprised by what I had to tell them. They accepted it, sir. They said to me that what had happened to me had happened to many other people before, and that I was lucky to return alive, because many people have disappeared in that part of the land, never to be seen again-White people, Black people, and so on.

Sir, I'm cutting a very long story short. In the year following, 1960, I was delivering parcels in the city of Johannesburg. You see, I was working in a curio shop, when a White man shouted at me to stop.

I assumed that the White man was a secret policeman who wanted to look into my identity documents. And when I tried to produce the documents, he told me, angrily, that he didn't want to see my stinking documents.

Sir, he asked me this question: "Listen, where the hell have I seen you before? Who are you?"

I said, "I am nobody, sir; I am just a working man."

He said, "Don't bullshit me, man; who the hell are you? Where did I see you before?"

And then I looked at him. I recognized him-his long, straggly, golden-brown hair, his ridiculous mustache and beard. I remembered him-his blue eyes blood-shot and naked-terror, shining upon his eyes, and his skin as pale as that of a goat.

I said, "Meneer", which is the African's way. "Meneer-I saw you in Rhodesia in a certain place underground." And if I had hit that White man with my fist, he wouldn't have reacted the way he did, sir. He turned away and walked with a terrible expression, and he disappeared on the other side of the street.

Now, roughly, this is what happened to me, sir, but it is not a unique experience at all.

Since that time I met many, many, many people who have had the identical experience that I said, and most of them were traditional Black men and women who can neither read nor write. They were coming to me to seek my help as a shaman, but I was, myself, looking for somebody wiser than I to tell me what had happened to me, exactly. Because, sir, when I get caught by the Mantindane, you become so traumatized, your life becomes so changed, you become so embarrassed and ashamed of yourself, you develop a self-hatred which you cannot understand, and there are subtle changes in your life which make no sense to you.

One: You develop a strange love for humankind. You want to shake everybody by the shoulders and say, "Hey, wake-up people; we are not alone. I KNOW we are not alone!"

And, you develop a feeling that your life is no longer your own; and furthermore, you become compelled with a strange edge to move from place to place, to travel. You become worried about the future; you become worried about people.

And another thing, sir, which I hoped one day you would send people to me to see for their own self: you develop knowledge which doesn't belong to you. You develop an understanding of space, an understanding of time and creation which makes no sense to you as a human being-it is a state, after your terrible torture, after substances have been removed from you, some kind of exchange takes place where you suddenly know things that the Mantindane would know, which ordinary human beings do not know.

But, sir, I know that this sharing of God often happens even when-for example, at one time, in 1966, in South Africa, sir, I was arrested and rather savagely interrogated by the security police. It was that time when every Black intellectual, no matter who he or she was, had a visit from these really nasty guys, who put you to torture, sometimes, who used to put electrical devices on you, and ask you questions, and so on.

Sometimes, when these "human beings" were torturing you, you often used to sense what they were thinking. Somehow, when you are being tortured by human beings, not by Mantindane only, there is a transference of thought. For example, when a particularly nasty secret policeman was coming to beat you, you KNEW what he was thinking, even before he burst into the room in which you were held. You knew that he was coming, and you knew exactly what he was thinking and what he intended to do to you.

So, this is why I say the strange things that flood my mind. And what flooded my mind on that day were visions from the mind of the Mantindane.

Since that time-I am a man of only very limited education-I found it hard to speak, let alone to write English. I take long to say things which people of better English would say in few words. But, my hands are capable of making things which nobody ever taught me.

I make engines, rocket engines that actually work. I make guns, of any type I wish, and all people who know me will tell you this and, Mr. David Icke, sir, might show you pictures of what I've done around my new home. I have made large robots out of scrap iron, and some of these robots are going to work. I don't know where I acquired this knowledge from. And since that terrible day, the visions I have seen since I was a child, and the ordinary impressions which I have as a shaman, have grown much more intense.

I don't know why, and I want to know the reason why. But I can tell you, sir, that these creatures, which people wrongly call aliens, are not aliens at all.

Over many years of looking into this thing, trying to understand it, I can tell you this: that the Mantindane, and the other kinds of alien beings that our people know about, are sexually compatible with human beings. The Mantindane are capable of impregnating African women.

And I have come across many cases of this during the last 30 years or so. For example, according to our culture, abortion is regarded as worse than murder. And if a tribal woman from a rural area in South Africa is found to be pregnant by some unknown person, and then her pregnancy disappears, that, sir, relative to that woman, accuses her of having committed abortion, and yet she denies this, of course.

Part 2

And because of the fight that results between her and her relatives, the husband's relatives, then she challenges these people who are accusing her to take her to a sangoma; that is a person like myself. The sangoma will sometimes examine the woman and, if the sangoma finds that the woman had been pregnant, and had somehow had her fetus removed-a thing which, when it is done by the Mantindane, results in specific injuries to the woman which anyone with experience can recognize-then, the sangoma knows that the woman is telling the truth.

Also, the smell which clings to people who have been through the hands of the Mantindane, that meticulous man which is unforgetable, always clings to all women who have been impregnated by the Mantindane, no matter how much perfume or powder they try to use.

So, that is why many such cases land on the doorstep of my life. Sangomas bring such people to me in large numbers, because they think I am the best one to help in such problems.

So, in the last 40 years or so, I have received many women who have actually been impregnated by the Mantindane and their pregnancies mysteriously terminated, leaving the woman feeling defiled, feeling guilty, and rejected by her family. It becomes my duty to convince the family of the woman's innocence, to try and heal the terrible spiritual and mental-as well as physical-trauma that the woman has undergone, and to otherwise help her and her members of the family, and forget what happened.

No, sir; if these aliens are from a far away planet, why are they able to impregnate women? And why did that strange creature, which was naked, with red pubic hair, which climbed over me on that working table, why did it have an organ which, though slightly different from that of a normal woman, was still a recognizable female organ?

The creature's organ was in the wrong place. It was slightly more in the front, where that of normal woman is between the legs. But it was recognizable, and it looked like a female organ. It had hair like a woman's organ.

So, sir, I believe that these so-called aliens don't come from far away at all. I believe that they are here with us, and I believe that they need substances from us, just as some of us human beings use certain things from wild animals, such as monkey glands, for certain selfish purposes of our own.

I believe, sir, that we should study this dangerous phenomenon very, very, clearly and with objective minds.

Far too many people fall into the temptation of looking upon these "aliens" as supernatural creatures. They are just solid creatures, sir. They are like us; and, furthermore, I'm going to make a statement here which will come as a surprise: the Grey aliens, sir, are edible. Surprised?

Martin: Please continue.

Credo Mutwa: I said, sir, the Grey aliens are edible (se mogu jesti, jestivo im je meso).

Martin: Yes, I heard that and I'm anxious to....

Credo Mutwa: Their flesh is protein, just as animal flesh on Earth is, but, anyone who ingests Grey alien flesh comes very, very close to death. I nearly did.

You see, in Lesotho there is a mountain called Laribe; it is called the Crying Stone mountain. On several occasions, in the last 50 years or so, alien craft have crashed against this mountain.

And one last incident was reported in the newspapers not so long ago. An African who believes that these creatures are gods, when they find the corpse of a dead Grey alien, they take it, put it in a bag, and drag it into the bush, where they dismember it and ritually eat it. But some of them die as a result of ingesting that thing.

About a year before I had the experience from the Inyangani Mountains, I had been given, by a friend of mine in Lesotho, flesh from what he called a sky god. I was skeptical.

He gave me a small lump of grey, rather dry stuff, which he said was the flesh. And he and I and his wife ritually ate this thing, one night. After we had eaten this thing, sir, on the following day, exactly, our bodies erupted into a rash which was like nothing I had experienced in my life before.

Our bodies were so full of the rash and urticaria, it was as if we had small pox. We itched, the itching was horrible, especially under the arm-pits and between the legs, and the buttocks. Our tongues began to swell. We could not breathe. And for a number of days, my friend, his wife and I were totally helpless, secretly attended by initiates who were studying under my friend, who was a shaman.

I came very close to death. There was bleeding from nearly every orifice in our body. We passed blood, much blood when we went to the toilet. We could barely walk, barely breathe. And after about 4 or 5 days, the rash subsided, then the pealing of the skin took its place now. Our skins began to peal, in scales like that of a snake shedding it's skin.

Sir, it was one of the most terrible experiences I had undergone. In fact, when I began to feel better, I think that my being abducted by the Mantindane was the direct result of my having ingested flesh from one of these creatures. I had not believed that what my friend was giving me was flesh from a creature. I assumed it was some kind of root or herb or whatever. But, afterwards, I recalled the taste of the thing. It had a coppery taste, and had the same type of smell that I was to encounter in 1959.

And, after the rash went down-while I was still peeling and we were smeared from head to foot with coconut oil by the initiates, every day-a strange change came over us, sir, which I am asking all people of knowledge who would read this in your country to try and explain to me. We went crazy, sir, utterly crazy.

We started laughing like real loony tunes. It was ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, day after day-for the slightest things we started laughing our heads off, for hours, until you were nearly exhausted.

And then the laughing went away; and then a strange thing happened, a thing which my friend said was the goal which those who ate the flesh of a Mantindane wanted to achieve.

It was as if we had ingested a strange substance, a drug, a drug like no other on this Earth. Suddenly, our feelings were heightened.

When you drank water, it was as if you had drunk a wine of some kind. Water became as delicious as a man-made drink. Food began to taste amazingly. Every feeling was heightened, and it's indescribable-it was as if I was one with the very heart of the universe. I cannot describe it any other way.

And this feeling of amazing intensity of feeling lasted for over 2 months. When I listened to music, it was as if there was music behind the music, behind the music. When I painted pictures-which is what I do for a living-and when I was holding a particular color on the tip of my brush, it was as if there were other colors in that color. It was an indescribable thing, sir. Even now I cannot describe it. But let me now, sir, go to something else.

The Mantindane are not the only alien beings that we Africans have seen and know about, and have got stories to tell about.

Many, many, many centuries ago, before the first White-man came to Africa, we African people encountered a race of alien beings which looked exactly like the European White-man who were going to invade Africa in our future.

These alien creatures are tall. Some of them are rather well built, like athletes, and they have slightly slanting blue eyes and high cheek-bones. And they have got golden hair, and they look exactly like the Europeans of today, with one exception: their fingers are beautifully made, long and like those of musicians and artists.

Now, these creatures came to Africa out of the sky, in craft which looked like the boomerang of the Australian people. Now, when one of these craft comes down to land, it creates a whirlwind of dust, which makes a very large sound indeed, like that of a tornado. In the language of some African tribes, a whirlwind is zungar-uzungo.

Now, our people gave several names to these White-skinned aliens. They called them Wazungu, a word which loosely means "god" but literally means "people of the dust-devil or the whirlwind".

And, our people were familiar with these Wazungu from the start. They saw them, and they saw that some-in fact, many-of these Wazungu carry what appears to be a sphere made of crystal or glass, a sphere which they always playfully bounce like a ball in their hands. And when a force of warriors tries to capture a Wazungu, the Wazungu throws this ball into the air, catches it in his hands, and then disappears.

But, some Wazungu were captured by Africans in the past and forcibly kept prisoner in the villages of chiefs, and in the caves of shamans. The person who had captured the Muzungu, as he is called in singular, had to make sure that he kept the glass-globe well-hidden from the Wazungu. So long as he kept the globe hostage, the Muzungu could not escape.

And when Africans saw the real Europeans, the White men from Europe, they transferred to them the name Wazungu. Before we met the people from Europe, we Africans, we had met White-skinned Wazungu, and we transferred the name Wazungu to the real Europeans, from the aliens.

Now, in the Zulu language, we call a White man Umlungu. Now, the word Umlungu means exactly the same as Wazungu, "a god or a creature which creates a big whirlwind underground".

In Zaire, called now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, White people are called Watende or Walende. This, again, means "a god or a White creature". And, the word Watende not only is used to refer to the pink-skinned alien, but is also used to refer to the field Chitauli. In Zaire, when shamans talk fearfully about the lords who control the Earth, they refer to them not as Chitauli, but they refer to them euphemistically as Watende-wa-muinda-that is, "the White creature which carries a light" because at night the Chitauli's forehead eyes glow like red lights in the dense bush. They glow like the rear lights of an automobile in the dense bush. So, a Watende-wa-muinda "the White creature of the light", that is what the Chitauli are called in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

There are over 24 other alien creatures, sir, that we Africans know about, but I will tell you briefly, now, about only two.

Sir, in the country called Zimbabwe, where I had my encounter in 1959, there is also another creature. This is the most amazing creature, and I saw it once, and so did several other people, some Black and some White, who were with me. This creature is a huge creature, and shaped exactly like a gorilla, but it is unlike a gorilla, which often walks on its feet, as well as on its knuckles. The creature I'm talking about, sir, stands about 8 feet or 9 feet high, and is built exactly like a gorilla, but its body is very powerful. Its shoulders are very wide, it's neck is very thick. It is covered with thick, rough fur, like no other wild animal in Africa.

It is a humanoid creature, with thighs and legs and feet, as well as arms and hands which look exactly like those of a human being, only covered with a heavy mat of dark-brown fur. This creature, sir, is known as Ogo by the people of Zimbabwe. And schools of people have seen this creature, hundreds over the many generations. Some of these creatures have been seen right here in South Africa, in isolated bushy and mountainous places. And these Ogo are, detail for detail, exactly like what the Native American people of the Northwestern United States call a Sasquatch or Bigfoot.

In fact, I say it is the same creature and we have it right here in southern Africa. It is also exactly the same creature, but with a totally different skin color, as the one that is seen by the people of Nepal on the slopes of the Himalaya mountains, the creature that is called a Yeti.

Now, then, the last creature, sir, a creature which is so well known in South Africa, and elsewhere in Africa, that if you mention its name, people smile. It is called a Tokoloshe. Every African knows what a Tokoloshe is. Some call it Tikoloshe.

It looks like a very nasty looking teddy-bear in appearance, in that it's head is like that of a teddy-bear, but it has got a thick, sharp, bony ridge on top of its head. The ridge goes from above its forehead to the back of its head, and with this ridge it can knock down an ox by butting it with its head.

This creature causes the Black people in certain places to raise their beds on bricks, one brick laid on top of the other one, about 3 feet above the ground. And you find this all over South Africa. This Tokoloshe likes to play with children, and has been seen hundreds of times by school children, in various parts of South Africa, even in recent times.

Sometimes it will terrorize children by scratching them as they sleep, leaving long, parallel scratches on a child's back and upon a child's thighs, scratches that become infected and itch terribly.

About two years ago, a creature like this terrorized a whole school of children in Soweto, near Johannesburg. And the school children called it pinky-pinky. Now, this creature is not only known in South Africa amongst Black people, it is also known, sir, amongst Polynesian people of Hawaii, and other islands in the Pacific. These people lift their huts, their grass houses, on stilts, to the height exactly that Africans lift their bed. When you ask a Polynesian, "Why do you built your huts like this?" The Polynesian will say, "We want to protect ourselves from Tiki."

Now, this is interesting, sir-that a creature exactly like the one seen in South Africa is also seen on some Pacific islands, and the name by which it is known in the Pacific, Tiki, is very close to the African word Tikiloshe, or Tokoloshe.

One day I hope to share more of this information with your readers, but my appeal, again, is this: Please investigate! Please, let us investigate! Let us stop being too skeptical. Excessive skepticism is just as dangerous and as evil as gullibility.

Nobody can tell me that aliens don't exist. Let someone tell me, what is the meaning of this hole in my side? Let someone tell me, why is it that after I had been mated to that strange creature, in that strange place, my organ of manhood swelled horribly, and for many years after that I couldn't make love to an ordinary woman, properly. Why? If that was a figment of my imagination, how can a figment of one's imagination leave you with scars and cracks on your male organ, some of which have not healed to this date? Let such people answer me that question.

We must investigate, sir, because there is every sign that the alien creatures sharing this planet with us are getting desperate. Why? Because, you see, there is a great fight shaping up, and anyone who thinks deeply about such things can see this fight coming.

What am I talking about? Sir, until 30 or 40 years ago, very few people cared about the environment. Very few people were concerned about the destruction of the rain forests in Africa and elsewhere. Very few people were concerned when White hunters, who, at that time were regarded as heroes, massacred Africa's animals in the thousands. Very few people were concerned when the great nations of the world, such as the United States, Russia, Britain, and France, openly tested nuclear weapons in many parts of the world.

Today there are people who would spit at a big-game hunter if he showed himself in a hotel and announced what he was. Today a big-game hunter is no longer looked upon as a hero, but rather as a murderer. Today there are men and women, Black and White, who are prepared to risk their lives to save trees, to save animals, and to stop the insanity of testing nuclear weapons.

Sir, what does this tell you? It tells you that, after many thousands of years of being dominated by alien creatures, human beings are starting to fight back. Human beings are starting to care about the world in which they live and in which they find themselves. But, the aliens, the Chitauli, the Mantindane-call them what you will-are not going to take that lying down. They are going to punish us, as they did centuries before.

The aliens once destroyed a nation whose name has come down to us Africans as the nation of Amariri. It is said that the kings of Amariri, this fabulous country which we believed lay beyond the setting of the Sun, were refusing to do what the Chitauli were telling them to do.

The kings, at that time, were refusing to sacrifice their children to the Chitauli. They were refusing to make war on fellow human-beings, in order to sustain the Chitauli, with their god's image.

It is said that the Chitauli brought down a fire from Heaven. They took fire from the Sun itself and they used it to burn that great civilization away. They caused earthquakes and tidal waves and destroyed the great civilization of the Red people of the long green hair, who are said to have been the first people ever to be created on this Earth. It is said that the Chitauli allowed only a few surviving people to escape the destruction of Amariri, and that they are prepared to do this again in the very near future.

I'm worried about what is going to happen in other countries in the world. All these earthquakes, which have caused the destruction of human life in the Middle East and in parts of Africa and India, why does my heart feel frightened when I read about all this? These earthquakes are happening with unnatural regularity now, in Egypt, in Armenia, and one of these earthquakes was so powerful, it went right through the planet Earth and caused a very sacred rock in Namibia, a rock known as the Finger of God, which has been standing for tens of thousands of years, to collapse in a heap of rubble. And when that rock collapsed, I received many worried letters from sangomas who believed that because this rock had fallen, then the end of the world was very, very near.

Is there a question, please?

Martin: I read your poem, your pledge. In your pledge you mention the name Jabulon. Can you explain who that is?

Credo Mutwa: Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is supposed to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my great surprise, which I find certain groups of White people, especially, worshipping. We have known about Jabulon for many, many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is Umbaba-Samahongo-"the lord king, the great father of the terrible eyes"-because we believe that Jabulon has got one eye which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you.

It is said, sir, the Umbaba ran away from an eastern land during a power struggle with one of his sons, and he took refuge in Central Africa, where he hides in a cave, deep underground. And it is an amazing thing, sir-it is said that under the Mountains of the Moon in Zaire is this great city of copper, of many thousands of shining buildings. There dwells the god Umbaba or Jabulon. And this god is waiting for the day when the surface of the Earth will be cleared of human beings so that he, and his children, the Chitauli, can come out and enjoy the heat of the Sun.

And, one day, sir, I had a very unexpected visit while I was living in Soweto, near Johannesburg. I was visited by priests from Tibet.

One of these priests, I'm sure you have met him or you know of him. His name is Akyong Rinpochce. He is one of the leading Tibetan priests in England who was exiled with the Dalai Lama, and he visited me one day while I was in my medicinal village in Soweto. And one of the things that Akyong Rinpochce asked me was, "Do I know of a secret city which is somewhere in Africa, a city made of copper?"

I said, "But, Akyong, you are describing the city of Umbaba, the city of the unseen god, the god who hides underground. How do you know about this?" And Akyong Rinpochce, who is a very serious investigator of strange phenomena, told me that at one time the great Lama left Tibet with a group of followers and came to Africa searching for this city. And the Lama, and his followers, were never seen again. They never returned back to Tibet.

Now, sir, we have got stories in central and southern Africa about little Yellow men who came to Africa looking for the city of Umbaba, the city from which you cannot return alive. What is amazing, sir-I don't know whether this falls within the orbit of your newspaper, but-there are very, very disturbing stories which I have followed-up here in South Africa, stories which make no sense to me.

(Break for a few minutes.)

Credo Mutwa: Hello.

Martin: Yes, Credo. May I just say that I am very appreciative of your taking this time to talk with me, and I realize it's difficult.

Credo Mutwa: I appreciate the honor that you are doing me, much more than you realize. And I know how White people often treat anyone who talks on the subject that I am talking about, as weird.

Sir, I really shouldn't be exposing myself to public ridicule, as I am, but, our people ARE DYING! Not only do we have problems with drugs in southern Africa, not only do we have problems with crime in my country, which is getting a thousand times more vicious than it ever was before, not only do we have problems with AIDS, sir, but we also have got weird problems which often come our way-problems which, when you study them together, show you that something unearthly is going on in southern Africa. Can I share this thing with you, sir?

Martin: Yes, please.

Credo Mutwa: Sir, according to my culture it is very rude for one man simply to talk to another man without giving that other man the chance to talk back to him. So, out of respect of your paper and of you, I would like to ask you, in your country, the United States, do you have strange stories about underground structures which are built-because we are having similar stories in South Africa, and with us they are having very strange results, indeed.

Martin: Yes, there are many stories of underground-we call them underground bases, actually, and, in fact, in the newspaper I was associated with earlier, we published an entire edition on exposing the locations of those underground bases. Not only that....

Credo Mutwa: There is exactly the same thing here in South Africa, and there has been for a number of years. I was able to confirm one to my own satisfaction, but I have failed to confirm others. You see, sir, a man like me, who walks two worlds-the African mystical world, as well as the modern, down-to-Earth world-must be careful of what he says. But, about 5 years ago, I was living in the little town of Masikeng, a very historical town which was the site of a famous siege by the Boors, in the war of 1899-1902.

It was in this town, sir, that the Scout movement, the Boy Scout movement, was founded by Captain Powell. I'm sure you've heard about him. But, while I was living in Masinkeng, a number of people came to me, ordinary tribesmen and women, sir, some of them totally illiterate. These people complained to me that their relatives had mysteriously disappeared. They wanted me to divine where their relatives have gone to. And, I asked these people, all of whom did not know each other, where did your relatives disappear?

These people had told me an incredible story, and it was this: Not far from Masikeng there is a famous place which I'm sure you have heard about, a place which we call the Las Vegas of South Africa. This is the famous casino/hotel complex called Sun City.

Martin: Yes.

Credo Mutwa: I was told that under Sun City strange mining operations were in progress, deep underground, and that many of the Africans who worked in those mines disappeared and never returned home again, although their paychecks kept on being sent to their family. The men never returned home, as ordinary miners do.

Now, I looked into this phenomenon, sir, and, like a fool, I refused to believe it. And then more stories came my way, because when an African is in deep trouble, he or she always looks for a sangoma to find the reason behind the trouble.

Sir, the other story was this, and this one I found to be a shocking truth-that there was construction across the border from South Africa, in the land known as Botswana. There, the Americans were working with African labor, who had been sworn to secrecy. The Americans were building there a secret airport which can take modern jet fighters. Now, I couldn't believe this. Again, I was told that many had mysteriously disappeared there-ordinary tribesmen, sir, not even educated Black people; ordinary workers have gone missing. And when their relatives try to find out where they had gone, they are met with stone-cold silence.

Now, I wanted to have a look at this thing, and one thing that made me act was that a strange story swept through South Africa, that a South African jet aircraft, a jet fighter, had shot down a flying saucer. And the jet fighter had been scrambled from this secret base.

Now, sir, I decided to investigate because my credibility as a shaman and as a sangoma was at stake. I went to Botswana. It was very easy. You can still cross through the wire and get into that country. The borders are not as heavily sealed in certain places as many people would think.

I went there with some friends and I found that there was such a base in Botswana, not underground, but on the surface. It is an aircraft base, but Black people are afraid of even being seen near there because it is said that you will disappear if you get too close to the place, and the man who took us there didn't want to come near that place. I studied it from far away, and it does exist, and the man said if we got any nearer to the place, we would disappear. Which is a very odd thing, sir, because there are many military bases all over South Africa, and in Botswana, but this particular one fills the local people with deep terror. Why this would be so, I'm still struggling to find out, even now, because there are too many strange things going on in my country, and they are affecting the lives of many of our people very badly indeed.

Now, there is another thing, sir: It is that one of the things that the Chitauli like to do in their underground caves, where many fires are always kept ablaze, we are told, is that when a Chitauli gets sick and starts to lose a large area of skin on his body, it is said that there is a disease that the Chitauli suffer from which causes them to lose large areas of their skin, leaving only raw flesh.

When the Chitauli gets sick this way, a young girl, a virgin, is usually kidnapped by the servant of the Chitauli and is brought to the underground place. There the girl is bound, hand and foot, and wrapped in a golden blanket, and is forced to lie next to the Chitauli, the sick Chitauli, week after week, being well fed and well cared for, but kept bound hand and foot, and only released at certain times to relieve herself. It is said that after the sick Chitauli shows signs of getting better, then the human girl is manipulated into trying to escape. She is given a chance to escape, a chance which is really not a chance. Then, when the girl escapes, she runs, but she is pursued over a long distance underground by flying creatures which are made of metal, and she is recaptured when she reaches the height of fear and exhaustion.

Then she is laid on an altar, usually a rough rock, flat on top. Then, she is cruelly sacrificed, sir, and her blood is drunk by the sick Chitauli, which then recovers. But, the girl must not be sacrificed until she is very, very, very frightened, because if she is not frightened, it is said that her blood will not save the sick Chitauli. It must be the blood of a very frightened human being, indeed.

Now, this habit of chasing a victim was also practiced by ordinary African cannibals, sir. In Zulu-land, in the last century, there were cannibals who used to eat people, and their descendants, even today, will tell you, if they trust you, that the flesh of the human being who has been frightened and made to run over a great distance, while trying to escape, tastes far better than the flesh of someone who was simply killed.

Now, sir, some time ago here in South Africa-and it is still an ongoing process-5 White girls disappeared. They were school-girls, sir. These school-girls were, every one of them, a highly talented child-either a child who showed signs of developing spiritual power, or a child who was a leader of her class in one particular thought or subject of learning. Five such children disappeared in South Africa. It was a very big story in the newspaper and, at one time, White people came to me and persuaded me to try and trace these children.

And one day a White man brought to me a rubber toy belonging to a White child who had disappeared. And I took the rubber toy in my hands and I noticed that the creature's eyes appeared to move. It was as if the rubber toy, a toy dinosaur, was about to burst into tears. I felt very bad, as if I could stand up and run away. And then I told this White man, "Listen to me: The child who held this toy is dead. What are you trying to do to me? This child is dead. I feel it."

And the White man, who was a television producer, took the toy, the school books, and the jersey, and he went away. And, sure enough, the White school child was found dead, buried in a shallow grave next to a road.

Now, other people came to me asking for my help in finding their missing children. Are they dead? Are they alive? Before I could do anything, sir-at that time I still had a telephone in my home-my telephone started ringing and people with very angry voices, White people voices, shouted at me and told me to stop helping those people. They told me that if I don't stop, acid would be thrown into my wife's face, and that my children would be murdered, one after the other.

And, sure enough, sure enough, my youngest son was brutally stabbed, almost to death, one day, by mysterious people whom his friends later told me had been White-skinned people. And so, I stopped, sir.

I am told, reliably, that over 1,000 children disappear in South Africa, almost every month. And they disappear, never to be seen again. Many people, especially in the newspaper field, think that this is the result of child prostitution rackets. But I do not think so. The children-if you check the history of many of these children, they were not ordinary street children, sir. They are school children who stand out in their class, because of certain subjects at which they are good, or, who stand out in their class because of thoughts which they are good at.

Not only that, sir, but ordinary women have disappeared this way, in Masikeng, also, at more or less the same time that the 5 White children disappeared. In Masikeng, two Black school teachers, female school teachers, disappeared in their car and were never seen again. But I don't want to burden you, sir, with this terrible story.

But let me tell you one last thing: After the disappearance of the 5 White school children, the police arrested a priest, a reverend of the White Reform Church, Reverend Van Rooyen. It was said that it was Van Rooyen who was responsible for the disappearance of these poor White school kids. And, he had been assisted by his girlfriend, who hand-picked these children. Before Van Rooyen could appear in court, a very strange thing happened. He and his girlfriend were shot in their little vehicle, a little 4x4 truck. And, after they had been shot, the truck managed to come to a stop-a thing that a moving truck never does-and I was told, afterwards, by a White woman who knew Van Rooyen, that Van Rooyen and his woman had not committed this crime as the police had said to the newspapers.

They had actually been murdered. Why? Because Van Rooyen was found with a gunshot wound in his right temple, and yet, all of the people who knew him knew that he had been a left-handed man. So, who murdered Van Rooyen and his woman? It is one of the biggest and the ugliest mysteries in South Africa to date.

There is more, much more along these lines, but I won't waste your time with it.

Martin: When we were talking about the Greys, you talked about the Chitauli. You had described them, the reptilians-now correct me if I'm wrong-were you describing them as tall, thin, large-headed, large-eyed beings?

Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. They are tall. They walk with a-you see, the Grey aliens walk with a jerking motion, sir, as if there is something wrong with their legs. But, the Chitauli walk very gracefully, like trees gently swaying in the wind.

They are tall. They have large heads. Some of them have got horns all around their heads. Now, let me express amazement, there exists-that in one of the films that recently appeared in South Africa, a Star Wars film, the latest one, shows a character EXACTLY like a Chitauli, exactly! It's got horns all around it's head. These are the warrior Chitauli.

The royal Chitauli have got no horns around their head, but have got a darker ridge reaching from above their forehead to their back. They are very graceful creatures, we are told, sir, but they have got-their little finger is a claw which is a very sharp, straight claw, which they use to punch into human noses, in order to drink human brains in one of their rituals.

Martin: Now, are they fair skinned?

Credo Mutwa: They are not pink skinned. They are white-skinned, like paper, almost like certain types of cardboard. Their skin is like that, it is the skin, definitely, of scaly, reptile-like creatures. Their foreheads are very large, bulging, and they look highly, highly intelligent.

Martin: Now, it's been said-I've heard that these beings are very controlling and they thrive on "divide and conquer".

Credo Mutwa: Yes, they do, sir. They set human being against human being. I could give you many amusing examples, using some African language, how the Chitauli are said to have divided human beings. They like-do you know who they like, sir? They like religious fanatics.

Martin: (Laughter)

Credo Mutwa: Ones who are burdened by too much religion are very popular with the Chitauli.

Martin: Well, now, I can't help but wonder if the Chitauli are prevalent in the United States because of the large number of underground bases. In the United States, alone, the numbers of missing children are so astronomically high that the White-slave trade does not answer those questions.

Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, I agree. But, I'm sorry, sir, I feel that it is in Africa that something very funny is designed to happen. Let me tell you what happened to me, recently, sir. We still have a little time. I won't be long, one minute or less.

Martin: No, no-that's fine.

Credo Mutwa: When I started talking to Mr. David Icke, and it was (when) Mr. Icke started speaking about me in Cape Town, I received a visit from 3 White people who pretended to be from South America. These people told me that something is going to happen on the 9th of this month, on 9-9-99. They said that this was going to happen in Lake Titicaca, a place which I once visited about 2 years ago.

Martin: A very special place.

Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. And then, these people told me, when we were speaking-these people, sir, speaking through an interpreter-told me that Africa is the country where something is going to happen soon which will decide the fate of all humankind.

And then, we parted on very friendly words, sir, but these people had left me a letter which I did not open until a few hours after they had left. And in this letter was written that I should not attend David Icke's talk, and that a strange person called Alia Czar was watching me. I don't know who Alia Czar is.

And they said to me-these people had said to me when we met-that they were under a great lord called Melchizedek. And, after I'd read this threatening letter, which threatened that if I talked, my wife, who is sick of cancer in hospital, is going to die if I talked. Then, I began to wonder. Who were these people?

Then, because I've been to South America before, I found that the Spanish language with which they were speaking was different from the language, the Spanish which is spoken in South America. These people were using Spanish from Spain, and not the slightly weakened Spanish from South America.

Even now, sir, that threat is still hanging over my head and, may I point out, sir, a strange thing which whoever you will send to me one day will see for themself: my wife is sick of cancer in the hospital, which is the largest hospital in South Africa, sir. And in one of the x-rays taken of my wife's womb, a strange metal device was seen-of a kind which has puzzled doctors. I spoke to my wife. I asked her, "Who put this object, which the x-rays have seen, in her womb."

My wife said nobody had ever touched her, and nobody had ever inserted anything into her. But this artifact, sir, which is clearly marked in the x-ray, and is clearly indicated with an arrow, is first seen in one x-ray plate, disappears for the next 2 plates, and is seen on the 4th plate again. I've been wondering very, very much about this.

No matter what we may think, sir, there are strange things going on in this world and they require an agent, investigation, and explanation. What is this strange device, which the doctors cannot identify, doing inside the uterus of a 65-year-old woman? My wife is suffering, and I can lose her at any time now, because I can't even get her out of hospital. Who put this device in her uterus, and why? I will never know the answer, not in this world.

Martin: I'm very sorry to hear about your wife having cancer. I just lost my mother last year to cancer and I know that is a very painful struggle.

Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, it is.

Martin: So, I am very sorry that you are going through that.

Credo Mutwa: Through the training as a Zulu step-son warrior, we have got something like the Japanese Samuri which we call the Kaway, which is a Sun warrior. When a Sun warrior, who is trained like I am, undergoes a terrible experience, he must channel the pain caused by that experience into cold, battle anger, in order to overcome the grief he feels.

And, at this moment, sir, I am aggrieved about what is happening in my country; about what's happening to my people; about what's happening to my wife, who is also my half-sister. You see, ours is what was called a sacred marriage between a man, a sanusi, a shaman, and his half-sister. And, the wife I'm about to lose is my half-sister. Our father is one man, although our mothers were different.

You know, sir, I feel a cold rage that Africa is being destroyed. I feel, sir, a cold rage that my people are being destroyed by forces which, when you study them, you find are totally alien. And, here, let me share with you, sir, one last thing, please, which will make your readers understand why I am feeling what I am feeling now.

As you know, sir, there is AIDS going like a silent fire through South Africa. And, last year, I found, to my horror, that one of my six children, my 21-year-old daughter, is HIV positive. Sir, I feel a cold rage in my heart that we are allowing an alien disease that came from we know not where, a disease which anyone, with any thought, realizes was manufactured somewhere in order to destroy large swaths of humankind.

When I look into my daughter's eyes, sir, I feel a chill. I've got two daughters, grown-up, young women, and she is the last. The other one is short and dumpy, and a loving-a lovely African girl with a big backside and big breasts. But this girl, who is dying of this disease, is slender, dark-skinned like my mother, and she is very beautiful, even by European standards-and I cannot look into my child's eyes and see what I read there: a resignation, a why? Why?

If AIDS was a natural disease, sir, I would accept it, because man must live side-by-side with illness in this world. But a child, you spend years educating and bringing-up, suddenly being snuffed-out before your eyes, by a disease made by evil people, I want to tear somebody's eyes out for what I've seen happening. I'm sorry, sir.

Martin: I understand.

Credo Mutwa: We must look into this thing. Is there one last question you would like to ask?

Martin: Yes. I would like to go back to the copper city for a moment. It would seem that this Jabulon would be the equivalent of what, in the West, we call Satan. Would you say that?

Credo Mutwa: I think so, yes, sir. He is the chief of the Chitauli. And, like Satan, he lives in a house underground where great fires are always lighted, to keep him warm. Because, we are told, that after the great war they fought with God, they became cold in their blood and they cannot stand freezing weather, which is why they require human blood, and also they require fire always to be kept working where they are.

Martin: Well it's been said, in the recent video tape that David Icke has put out, that the shape-shifting reptilians, in order to maintain their façade, their cover, their human-like appearance, they must drink human blood. And there is something about the blond gene, apparently. Now, I don't know what...

Credo Mutwa: Yes. Mr. David Icke shared that a little with me, sir. He told me that, repeatedly, golden-haired people get sacrificed by the Chitauli , and then I told him, in my turn, what I know from Africa.

You see, sir, not all Africans have got black hair. There are Africans who are regarded as very holy, as very sacred. These are Africans who are born with natural red hair. These Africans are believed to be very spiritually powerful. Now, in Africa, such people, albeamers or red-headed Africans, were the most victims of sacrifice, especially when they were just entering maturity-whether they were males or females.

Martin: Now, when you were able to see the eyes beneath the Grey alien's exterior, would you say that those were reptilian beings underneath that cover?

Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, exactly. I will tell you why. There is a snake here in South Africa which is called a Mamba.

Martin: Yes, very deadly.

Credo Mutwa: It is one of the most poisonous snakes that you can find. It has got eyes EXACTLY like those of a Chitauli and of a Mantindane. And so has a Python, sir. A crocodile's eyes are very ET-looking, and they don't look as hypnotic and as piercing as those of a Mamba or a Python. If you can image, sir, the eye of a Python, magnified about 10 times, then you have got exactly what a Chitauli's eyes look like.

Martin: Well, it is said, and I believe this to be true, that there is a-for lack of a better way of putting it-there is a rat izmedju Svjetla i Tame, Boga i Zla, na ovoj planeti.

Credo Mutwa: Da. Da, gospodine. Da, gospodine. Da.

Martin: And there certainly is a God in His Universe, Bog Svjetla i Pravednosti.

Credo Mutwa: Da, gospodine.

Martin: How does your culture, how do you view the intervention of God through His Hosts, through His Representatives? In all things there must be a balance, and that includes on planet Earth-as above, so below. How do you see-for many readers, they can read about this all, and it sounds very frightening and very, almost, hopeless-and yet, there certainly is hope. So, I would like to end this interview on a message of hope.

Credo Mutwa: Yes. Please, sir, there IS hope! Look, first of all, there IS a God above us. And this God is more real than most of us believe. God is not a figment of someone's imagination. God is not something dreamt-up by old men and old women in prehistoric times. God exists, sir. But standing between us and God are creatures who claim to be gods. And these creatures we must get rid of in order to get closer to God.

Sir, I have lived a long and very strange life, and I can tell you that there is a God, and He is intervening. However, we see God's intervening as slow, but wait: Who would have thought that less than 30 years ago, not one person cared about the environment. Who put this sudden Godliness within all of us?

Today, sir, people everywhere in the world are standing up and fighting for the rights of women and for the rights of children. Who has put these ideas into our minds? Not the Chitauli, not any demonic entity, it is God acting in the shadow and making us strong and able to resist these ugly creatures.

You see, sir, God seems to work slowly in our eyes, because God lives in a time-sphere totally different from our own. God is there. God is working. And it is God, sir, who, for the first time in our existence, is making us aware of these things, making us aware that on this world we are not alone, and that we must be soul-ly and solely responsible for our actions, and we must neutralize these alien beings who for years have led us around in circles.

Human beings have never known any real progress, sir, because there have been forces that have been stopping us from reaching our rightful position in the universe, and I mean the Chitauli, I mean the Mantindane, I mean the Midzimu. We must stop regarding these creatures as super-human creatures. They are just parasites who need us more than we need them. And only a fool will ever deny the fact that we are not the only intelligent species of being that this planet has produced.

All over Africa there is overwhelming evidence that once there were gigantic human beings who walked this planet, in the days of the dinosaur. There are footprints in granite, each one 6 foot long by 3 1 wide, footprints of mature human beings, sir, which date back thousands of years, millions of years. Where did these giants go to? Who knows; the dinosaurs may have produced an intelligent race, a race which deceives us into thinking that it comes from the stars, when in fact it is part of this planet on which we live.

There is hope, and the hope is very bright. A Christ-child is being born in all of us, but like all deaths, the death of the Light-child (the death of the old-self prior to transformation into "Christness") is going to be attended by great danger, as the enemy is going to be driven into desperation. The enemy will make mistakes and we will conquer him in God's sacred name. That is what I believe, sir, and that is what I'm going to hold-on believing until my last breath.

OSTATAK NA DOMAĆEM JEZIKU

Martin: I to je perfektono mjesto da završim ovo ovu misao, na toj zabilješki.And that is a perfect place to end this-on that thought, on that note.

Sada, dozvoli mi da kažem, samo za tebe, od 1974, ja sam vidio mnoge, mnoge svemirske brodove, izbliza (mislim ne iznutra ne da sam pregledan - by abduction). Iskusio sam to u planinama južnog Oregona, prešao sam preko otisaka stopa Velikog stopala...

Credo Mutwa: Ah-hah!

Martin: ...pored rijeke gdje sam kampirao. Čuo sam Veliko-stopalo (Bigfoot ) u planinama noću. I čuo sam kako plaču...

Credo Mutwa: Ya-ya! Vidiš?

Martin: ...iz jedne planine do druge. To su stvari koje sam ja iskusio. Ja ZNAM ove stvari su stvarne!

Credo Mutwa: Da, gospodine. Tada, govorio sam prijatelju (fellow) ratniku, i rekao sam, "Prevazići ćemo to - We shall overcome", kao što su Američki Marinci pjevali za vrijeme Drugog Svjetskog Rata.

Martin: Da, i za vrijeme Vijetnamskog Rata.

Credo Mutwa: Prevazići ćemo to, Prevazići ćemo to, ali skeptici se moraju prestati smijati, i budale moraju prestati zvati ove strance-aliens, bog. Postoji samo JEDAN Bog, i On ili Ona ili To je Jedan koji nas je kreirao-napravio, i nije neki       ( impostor ) koji je došao od bilo gdje da se iza nas i pije krv naše djece. Amen, gospodine.

( Riječ AMEN po R.B. klikni i pogledaj  pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

who came from somewhere else to hide behind us and to drink our children's blood. Amen, sir.

( Riječ ALIEN po R.B. klikni i pogledaj  pa se vrati na čitanje ovog teksta ).

Martin: Da, apsolutno si u pravu. Credo, molim te, znaj da ja duboko zahvaljujem šta si uradio i na hrabrosti da govoriš prijateljski. Prošlo je vrijeme kada se nije smjelo govoriti o ovome, i sada je vrijeme da se progovori Istina. I za one koji ne vjeruju ili čak i za one koji razmatraju mogućnosti, dakle, to je suvuše loše.

Credo Mutwa: Tačno, i da se ljudi suoče sa činjenicama da nema razloga da se boje bilo čega. Ako krenemo od pogleda-perspektive da pravimo informacije koje su dostupne da treba da budu dostupne svakoj pojednij osobi na ovoj cvjetajućoj-naprednoj planeti ( blooming planet ), zašto do djavola oni pokušavaju da prijete i ušutkavaju? Ako je to tako smješno, neka bude. Prestanite potajno ubijati ljude i ismijavati ih i uništavati ljude praveći mučkajući ih, strahom ( and destroying people by churning-up fear ). Ovo je pogled-perspektiva do koje sam ja došao, i ja sam siguran kao i David, i očigledno i ti, uradimo to. Ja nemam straha više.

Sada je vrijeme da govorimo o tome i da pridonesemo globalnoj svjesnosti, zajedničkoj svjesnosti i stvari postavimo ispred-da budu vidljive. Hvala, mnogo, stvarno zahvaljujem za to.

Martin: Apsolutno tačno. Hvala.

[Zabilješka urednika: Rick Martin se može kontaktirati direktno na email adresi rickm@tminet.com ili pismom na: Rick Martin c/o The SPECTRUM Newspaper, 9101 West Sahara Ave., PMB 158, Las Vegas, NV 89117, USA.]

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